Your opinions on Crowley?

OK I am curious about something. Not sure how to format my question as I feel that any way I word it may be misinterpreted as I am being nasty or argumentative or something of that sort. But anyways, here's my attempt and I do apologize in advance if anyone takes this wrong. *nervous look*

Since I have come here to learn more about tarot I find myself going off into little "side adventures" where I see something else on here somewhat related to tarot and I go off to research it. Well I saw a lot of you guys discussing the Thoth deck which is made by Crowley. I started researching him and all that I have read paints him in a sort of negative light. This being the case it seems almost as a bad idea to use the cards, if these accounts of him are true. What is everyone's take on this??

Mr. Crowley is a very controversial personality, and is difficult to know how much of what has been told about him is truth and what is urban legend, I bet those urban legends didn't bother him as they enriched the myths abouth him.

I've consciously avoided his deck as I feel prejudice about it because of the creator, last year during my Tarot course I had the chance to see one Thoth deck, it has amazing art but I didn't feel curiosity to explore the cards symbols. Anyway a lot of people here, love this deck and get great readings with it, I'm glad they found the one deck but I feel like keep on searching for mine.

There is a recent thread, called 'how to appreciate Crowley'
Which is about this very subject.

Personally I think he is cool.
I like that negative thingy he's got.
He makes me laugh, he's like a naughty little boy saying 'Look how bad I am!'
And that endears him to me.

SunriseDesire said:

...the Thoth deck which is made by Crowley. I started researching him and all that I have read paints him in a sort of negative light. This being the case it seems almost as a bad idea to use the cards, if these accounts of him are true. What is everyone's take on this??

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My take on it is that the cards work well for me both for divination purposes and as year and as year/soul/personality cards. What people think of him, and what he did or didn't do is irrelevant to me in regard to that.
His ideas were a big part of the making of the deck, but I think it is important to remember that he did not paint the pictures, though he had great influence upon what would be in them.
I have not yet delved deeply into his ideas at this point, both because I really don't care, and because the way I use the deck at this point works well for me. (I use a book which focuses upon the astrological and more generally symbolic meanings of the deck in order to interpret it. It also incorporates the real life experiences of people in regard to having the various major arcana as year cards, in order to interpret those.)
I may go more deeply into the ideas behind/associated with the deck at some point. But the way I view it now is that if there really are deep esoteric truths associated with the Thoth (which go beyond its use for divination alone) that those truths would go beyond the man Crowley and would be something which is/was out there for anyone to discover.

Art is created. Truths are discovered. Divination is an activity. Those are seperate things. That is my view at this point.

Not to offend, but my honest unvarnished opinion is:

I have to say that I really dislike both Crowley the personality, and the deck. I just don't see any beauty in it, aside from a very few cards. the Fool gives me the Jim-Jams, he looks like he's about to go Postal any minute now!! I find the court cards Demented, and the Minors Ugly. It's just not my deck. However, I have come to like some of the Crowley-type decks very much---Tarot of the Spirit, for one.

When I started reading, back in the early '60's the deck and Crowly had a very black repution as Master and Epitome of Evil. I'm sure it would have delighted him!

I have a copy (the vile large green, but who cares?) and a copy of the companion book that I keep for comparitive purposes. I can't
imagine wanting to read with the deck, but I sometimes find very interesting points of view in the book, to my surprize. He is wonderfully eloquent on the Elemental Dignitaries.

But I still think he's a Nut Job, at best.

I love Crowley's deck. Crowley himself was a beautiful magickal theorist. Probably the most influential magickal thinker of the 20th century. He was also a Heroin Addict, selfish, perverse, and often cruel. This doesn't change the fact that he was a genius and his work in many different areas of Magick was brilliant.

I think it's hilarious that people build up so much angst over whether it is "right" to read Thoth or whether the deck and his work is inherently "evil". The fact is that Crowley _could_ have been the most evil man in the world (whatever that means) but his work is still hugely influential. I don't actually have figures to prove it but I'd wager that Crowley is the most commonly referenced authority on magick in the 20th century - referenced by lots of well-respected authors who themselves don't carry the mark of the beast or its suspicion. Given how far-reaching is that influence there must be legion who have escaped the inevitable corruption from coming into contact with his method and legacy.

Personally I'd far sooner read Thoth which was painstakingly constructed to Crowley's "vanadium yardstick" and infused with such wealth of symbolism that I haven't seen in any other deck; and whatever else Crowley was the man was a genius. Far sooner Thoth than one of these faceless, insipid decks to make people feel fluffy and nice about the occult. One gets some measure of the mind on reading his works and for me few others even come close.

Crowley was judged far worse in his time, and i feel that if he was walking about now he wouldn't attract as much attention other than leading a philosophy or lifestyle and perspective. A lot of what he did would be considered to be in with the A List celebrities of today.
I can appreciate Crowley, I might not like some of what he said or did, but I really appreciate this whole world his deck has opened for me. Its a very interesting perspective to look from and its helping me in lots of ways.

I wonder if we did some detailed research into a few other tarot artists and creators there would be some sensational stories to be told. How many other people care tuppence about the artist and creator when they look the cards and say whether the art works for them or not? Would it be considered important ? I dont think it would. Theres still alot of hype about him, his legend lives on but in all honesty I dont think its important at all.
It helps to understand his perspective, but you dont have to like him, or even agree with them. Just go for the decks that you are attracted to and I would suggest that your head shouldnt over rule your heart and gut instinct

Blessings,
Sezo
x

crowley

thank you everyone for your opinions and insight.

inanna you are correct, i think, when you say that he probably wouldn't attract much attention today. people that are "different" tend to be more accepted [not always by much] than they were in the past.

most of what i read on him paints him to be this man who had an addiction to heroin, very self absorbed, selfish and cruel. what bothered me the most about the accounts i read was the stories of him torturing animals. he's still a very interesting person. i just would have to say that the stuff about animals put me off.

Crowley... difficult much?

I read in a book on the Thoth Tarot something that I think is funny and true. They described Crowley's name as a false password that causes doors to close in your face.

His reputation, which I believe he cultivated, is so at odds with some of his writing. And some of his writing is so at odds with other writings. For example, I really find this sensitive, kind, caring and enormously smart man in "Magic Without Tears." Everyone knows the negative stuff, so I won't give an example of that. But figuring out who is the real Crowley is pointless. He was both. Like most of us, he won't slide easily into a box just so we can understand him.

If Crowley's association with the Thoth deck bothers you, let me put your mind at ease. Lady Harris was the creator of the deck.

As best as anyone can tell, Crowley gave her a list of elements he wanted included, card by card. But a great deal of the deck was hers alone. In fact, she owned the copyright and collected the royalties (which, generously, she gave entirely to Crowley despite their agreement).

In Crowley's book on the deck, the introduction implies that he frequently made her paint and then discard an image eight times or more before being satisfied. There is no evidence that this is true. The only card that she did more than once, as far as we know, is the Magus -- and we have all three versions (the alternative versions are published in at least one 80-card edition of the Thoth deck).

Crowley did write a brillant book on the deck. It is ... wildly escoteric and dauntingly comprehensive in its scope. And the writing is, in my opinion, deliberately difficult.

But, the Thoth deck belonged to Lady Harris primarily. So, use it in her memory. She was an amazing woman who managed to be friends with Crowley without ever getting caught up in some of his... less gentle impulses.