The Lovers or 2 of cups?

Laurelle said:

Lovers is a connection that affects your soul. You have no control over the fate of meeting this person. It was destined.

2 of Cups can be taken as "just a little romance." It's not a profound. It's something you have control over.

But how do you feel about these cards you drew? You must have some kind of feeling about what they mean. It will help you if you give your own interpretation. (Plus, it's part of the rules of this forum and any minute a mod is going to log on and tell you that you need to interpret the cards... )

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Have to disagree there, 2 of cups is not "just a lttle romance"

its a soul felt and beautiful connection and yea "profound"

Workable


The lovers is always a problem BIG TIME

First, thanks for you reply, it is really inspiring and the description of the Lovers card makes so much sens.

Thirteen said:

No. We're aiming for the 10/Cups; quiet, mature love that is an example to future generations

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Why do you think that we should all aim for a 10 of cups relationship, I am very curious. A lot of people think that this temporary state of happiness with the 10 of cups does not last long or other says that this card contains a bit of wishful thinking.

Also, with your example about the 2 of cups, you talked about using the filter of emotions to make decisions (which can lead to wrong decisions), so since the 10 of cups also contains cups, is it the best love cards since it's the end of the suit?

Thanks! (I like relationship questions )

Emma313 said:

Have to disagree there, 2 of cups is not "just a lttle romance"

its a soul felt and beautiful connection and yea "profound"

Workable


The lovers is always a problem BIG TIME

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What else do you think of the 2 of cups? I'm interested to hear why you believe it's a soul felt and beautiful connection?

Beautiful and profound is not the same as lasting

Emma313 said:

its a soul felt and beautiful connection and yea "profound"

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But not necessarily lasting. I've had some very profound and beautiful 2/Cups connections. And then I've said good-bye, and they've said good-bye and that was the end of that beautiful and profound, soul-felt moment. Which was fine. We didn't need more than that. If we did...then we would have pursued it farther and learned if that connection could last beyond that moment. Maybe yes, maybe no.

With the 10/Pentacles, there's more of a chance of it developing into something lasting and real, rather than being just a moment. But by itself...by itself all it says is that you'll have that moment.

tarot_quest said:

Why do you think that we should all aim for a 10 of cups relationship, I am very curious. A lot of people think that this temporary state of happiness with the 10 of cups does not last long or other says that this card contains a bit of wishful thinking.

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Well, let's remember that all cards can be positive/negative and everything in between. So, I'm fine with those interpretations for the 10/Cups. Depending on the spread, etc., the card can certainly mean those things. However, according to the numbers, 9 is earthly completion and 10 is one step beyond that. In RWS, the card image is of a family suggesting that the love has been strong enough, mature enough to take them beyond that first romantic moment, through ups-and-downs, to creating a family. And that they're passing this love onto future generations. So, it seems to me that the card suggests a lot of potential for a relationship. Understand, I'm not saying the Lovers is a bad card to get for a relationship, as it does tell the couple that they "complete" each other; but as a major it packs a big punch. And while we often like to see those punches in romance fiction, they're not so much fun when they're part of our actual love lives

Oops! Sorry, forgot to get to this second part...

tarot_quest said:

Also, with your example about the 2 of cups, you talked about using the filter of emotions to make decisions (which can lead to wrong decisions), so since the 10 of cups also contains cups, is it the best love cards since it's the end of the suit?

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Emotions aren't always reliable, but (1) I think we can agree that you do want your heart to be part of a relationship and (2) while there are high and low tides to water, it can run deep. If it runs deep enough, then it won't dry up; and its ability to flow becomes less about being moody, then being able to adapt to new containers. That image of the family under the rainbow, suggests waters deep enough to last; to unite the two lovers, to unite the family. To, perhaps, unite the community and the world. In the Thoth deck, the card is called "Satiety" meaning that you couldn't be happier or more fulfilled. And it's positive meaning is that love (those cup emotions) unite body and spirit.

Remember also that while 10 is an ending, it also adds up to "1" suggesting that endings lead to new beginnings. The kindness, forgiveness and generosity of the 10/Cups, leads to that overflowing Ace, which can quench anyone's thirst.

As for 2/Cups, excepting the 2/Wands, 2's are that moment before you make a decision. It's a gathering of information, or in the case of 2/Cups, gathering feelings. Exploring the connection, if you will. After this, the decision will be made: invest more emotions and strengthen the connection, or not? And if the 2/Cups is part of a relationship reading, then both sides have to make that decision. Otherwise, you end up with the puppy situation. You committed yourself to the puppy, but the puppy didn't commit to you. That's the problem with relationships. They require the other person to be on board, too.

2/Cups says that the other person feels that connection as powerfully as you do, but it doesn't promise that they will reach the same conclusion. Which is a bigger issue, I think, then whether or not you should make such a decision based on emotions. It's really important to keep in mind that, unlike other 2 cards, yours is not the only decision that matters here. However powerful and profound this connection, nothing can come of it if one of you invests, but the other does not.

Does that make sense?

Thirteen said:

As for 2/Cups, excepting the 2/Wands, 2's are that moment before you make a decision. It's a gathering of information, or in the case of 2/Cups, gathering feelings. Exploring the connection, if you will. After this, the decision will be made: invest more emotions and strengthen the connection, or not? And if the 2/Cups is part of a relationship reading, then both sides have to make that decision. Otherwise, you end up with the puppy situation. You committed yourself to the puppy, but the puppy didn't commit to you. That's the problem with relationships. They require the other person to be on board, too.

Does that make sense?

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I love your description of the 2's Thirteen. Learn something new everyday

To the original question about 2 of Cups and Lovers...I tend to see the 2 of Cups as the very initial stages of romance where you feel the butterflies in your stomach, pondering about how the other person feels although it's evident you feel the feelings are mutual.

Lovers can speak of choices or even temptation. What type of love do you honour or want to follow type of thing.

Just my 2 cents

Personally, I would rather see the 2 of Cups in a romantic love reading. That to me is the card that indicates two people both have romantic feelings for one another. Yes, it is usually felt at the beginning of a relationship, because that's when/where romantic love exists. It does take work to sustain it, in fact couples are often counseled to keep that "new" feeling in a relationship, to not take one another for granted or let things get stale.

Emma313 said:

Have to disagree there, 2 of cups is not "just a lttle romance"

its a soul felt and beautiful connection and yea "profound"

Workable


The lovers is always a problem BIG TIME

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Yep, I mostly agree with this.

The Lovers, for me, does not even indicate a relationship with another person. It represents unresolved, conflicting aspects of self. It is not simply a choice, such as weighing the pros and cons and coming to a decision (that is usually the 2 of Pentacles), it is the situation where the split within yourself really wants two different things and either option will leave a large part of yourself feeling unsatisfied. In the context of romance, it may be where part of you really wants to settle down and get serious, but another part of you still wants to party and meet new people.

Thirteen said:

If we're using Rider-Waite associations, the Lovers is Gemini, and air sign....Air is the mind

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This is a good reminder. Gemini=twins. I really see The Lovers as one person who is "of two minds" about something. When I see The Lovers in a romance reading, I see someone who needs to work on themselves before they are ready for a relationship.

Uncompromising Lovers

cSpaceDiva said:

it is the situation where the split within yourself really wants two different things and either option will leave a large part of yourself feeling unsatisfied. In the context of romance, it may be where part of you really wants to settle down and get serious, but another part of you still wants to party and meet new people.....This is a good reminder. Gemini=twins. I really see The Lovers as one person who is "of two minds" about something.

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I think that's a very good way to look at it in most cases, as, unlike in the 2/Cups, the decision is all in the person who gets the card; in 2/Cups, you not only have to decide what you're going to do, but the person on the other side of the table must agree to it. In the Lovers, as you say, the person feels divided and must unify themselves toward one thing or another. And yes, even if they feel very strongly toward doing X rather than Y, it won't be an easy decision.

But I think we should also keep in mind that Lovers, via Gemini, does often mean that the person feels they've found a missing part of themselves--be it in another person or something else that draws them like a magnet. The story of Gemini is the story of twin brothers, one immortal the other mortal, and the immortal one shares that immortality with the mortal one so they won't be parted.

The decision the person makes in the Lovers card may not be easy, but it usually is one where they decide to share themselves, to accept the drawbacks of being in a relationship as well as the benefits, and they do so in order to feel spiritually complete. The comfortable or "satisfied" way will leave them feeling like they've given up a part of themselves; that they have compromised themselves and they will never be whole again. The Lovers card urges a person to make the decision which doesn't compromise them. Which, whatever the cost, will leave them feeling whole.

Judging the cake by its frosting?

Just to add, the key difference here between 2/Cups and Lovers, I think, is how much information comes with the connection. For example...and I hope this metaphor isn't too odd...

2/Cups is rather like seeing a cake (let's imagine a small, individual-sized layer cake) covered in delicious frosting (I'm instantly drawn to chocolate, myself). This connection grabs your attention and gets you interested; and it's certainly "love at first sight." But readers have to be careful not to read it as: "Here is your soulmate," (i.e perfect cake) because while the attraction of the "frosting" is significant, it's not the whole cake. What if you don't like the actual cake under that frosting. If it's problematic enough (something about the person you can't get past), then it might be a deal-breaker. You put aside the cake. Of course, even if the actual cake isn't the flavor you expected, it might be to your liking. In that case, you'll continue on. Maybe you'll find you don't like the filling between the layers, but decide that you can work around it, and that this relationship is still for you. In short, 2/Cups offers a wonderfully strong start, but you really have to learn more before you can say that this relationship is a done deal.

With the Lovers, you see the cake with a slice missing; all the layers are exposed and you know exactly what you're going to get. Which is why readers often omit "romance" from the Lovers, because an important part of romance is the thrill of discovering each other. Of course, that's also the downside of romance: with each new layer, you have to decide if this cake is still for you. With the Lovers, that's not an issue; as with Gemini, the twins, you know this person/thing's problem and flaws as you know yourself. You aren't going to suddenly discover something about them that you didn't know and which is a deal breaker. So, with this connection, the delicious layers of the cake, all perfectly to your taste, are seen and outweigh the parts that are not to your taste, making it well worth having. A done deal. This is why the Lovers has more weight as a "connection" than the 2/Cups, and why the 2/Cups is considered more romantic than the Lovers. I think.

Did that make sense?