How do I tell if they are reversed?

Sorry if there has been a thread on this already. Some of the swords have "real" swords in the middle of the more abstract swords, and sometimes they point up and sometimes down, I don't want to get mixed up about which way is reversed, maybe I should just go through the deck and take notes before I shuffle them too much? Some of the wands are quite difficult to tell which way is up.

Myrrha

Are you saying the sword images are reversed or the cards themselves? Usually 'reversed' means that the card comes up in position upside down from how it's supposed to be.

Depending on the deck, I've heard of people using the way the person images face in a reading when applying meaning to the cards around them in the spread, but haven't heard about which way the cups/swords/wands/pentacles are tilted.

Does anyone out here use this technique when reading?

HudsonGray said:

Are you saying the sword images are reversed or the cards themselves? Usually 'reversed' means that the card comes up in position upside down from how it's supposed to be.

Click to expand...

Well, I meant that with all the cards upright, as they came from the new pack, the "real", non-abstract sword in the seven of swords points down, and the real looking sword in the three of swords points up, several sword cards are like this. This is my first Marseilles deck so I have not done any readings with it but I imagine a sword pointing up or down could make a difference. Some of the wand and coin cards seem to be intended to be the same upright or reversed, there are no directional elements. I don't use reversals much anyway, but I just went through the pack and took careful notes so I will know how it is "supposed" to be-- just in case!

Myrrha

hi myrrha ... which TdM are you using?

According to Paul Marteau's book on his TdM deck (Grimaud or Dusserre publishers), all of the Swords pip cards that have 'real' swords have those swords facing up when the card is upright.

Same too for the Jodo/Camoin and Conver (Héron) decks, at least according to their copyright and French National Library stamps, accordingly.

I wish I could help here, but I can't. Some of the cards, I have absolutely no idea of how they were designed originally. And some of them cannot be reversed - they're exactly the same however way you look at them. So where does that lead one to if one does reversals? To a neutral situation?

Thanks for answering, Diana and Rusty Neon. I am using the Ancient TdM from Lo Scarabeo, which is a reprint of a Nicolas Conver TdM. It makes sense to me that the swords are upright when they are, well, upright! The manufacturers must have reversed some without knowing. The fact that some cards are reversable and some are not seems to make the deck that much more nuanced. I want to read this Marteau book! Too bad my French has deteriorated so badly since college.

Myrrha

Myrrha ... Marteau's book has been translated into Spanish. (Not available in English though).

As Diana has noted, in the end we really don't know if some of the Swords cards's real swords were intended as down when the card was upright. All we have are views (or sloppy errors) of different people (French National Library, Marteau, publishers, etc.).

There 'might' be some clues in looking at Swords pips from TdM decks that predate the 1760 Conver.

It is also quite interesting that Marteau's own company (Grimaud) has its copyright marks facing differently on subsequent printings of the same deck, and that the variations are even more pronounced between the decks printed with French and French-&-English titles.

At the very least, this shows that even with this important and well respected publisher of the Marseilles, the 'uprightness' of the deck is not consistent.

Pesonally I tend to 'see' the odd-numbered swords as upright when the central sword faces point-up...