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Grail Mystery Rediscovered in Tarot

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Quote:
Originally Posted by firemaiden
Is there any support for the graal connection going back further than the RWS?

Yes, it was a common theme based on Robert de Boron's stories.

The courts were often named after popular medieval romances and the nine worthies. For example the cup of knights was labeled "Lancelot" in some decks.

I am following this thread with interest but have northing good to add at this point.
Top   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frelkins
Very convincing and I'm down with it, except for the 6.
I agree it's not perfect. But, Pixie also had to illustrate a bunch of divinatory meanings (Etteilla, Mathers-1888, Chambers, and GD).

Quote:
And how do Lances become mere Staves or Wands?
How do polo sticks become cudgels? How do coins become pentacles become patens? Compromises are made all over the place and Waite was using the GD system, even though it is not always obvious (Wands=Fire, etc.).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosanne
Hi frelkins!
I think it is this that he sees darkly....
The withdrawn sacramental mystery.
~Rosanne
Exactly!
Top   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firemaiden
Is there any support for the graal connection going back further than the RWS?
I'm not sure if I understand what you mean. In my research Waite seems to be the first person to mention correspondences among the Grail Hallows, the Celtic Treasures and the suits of the Tarot. Jessie Weston in 1920 mentions it in From Ritual to Romance and says she got the idea from Yeats. In Waite's 1933 rewrite of his Grail book he gets rather irate at Weston, saying that the idea originally came from him.
Top   #14
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I guess what I mean to ask is, whether the grail mystery is only there because Waite put it there in his deck? Or is it to be seen in the Marseille?
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I dislike Waite writings- but I read chapter 9 of THE HALLOWS OF THE GRAAL MYSTERY REDISCOVERED IN THE TALISMANS OF THE TAROT that Teheuti linked again and I was struck for the first time at how sad Waite was at the loss of a time that had been taken away. The inheritance that is now withdrawn- or known as 'The Fall' or Man's loss of Innocence. The questions we do not ask to heal the land (ourselves and thus the World). I do however find it kind of weird, that he uses what is essentially a pagan myth of regeneration (Grail Legends) to explain the Wasteland or Spiritual isolation in a Christian sense. Not because he is the first to do that- he is not- after all think of how much Christianity has borrowed from Paganism; but because I think the Tarot of Marseilles for instance (which he must have known about) is according to some exactly the same story told from a Christian perspective. Why could he not see that? Did he think the Grail Legend more ...gnostic??? After all the World card looks like Man/woman and the Robe of Glory- the final attainment.
~Rosanne
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ok.


even if the grail mystery was in the minor arcana as waite thought it is,,

I thought that waite had very little to do with the actual illustration of the minor arcana as his main focus was on the major arcana.

so if we can't look at the minor pips illustrations for further depth on this subject where else can we look ?.

or do you suppose he simply said to pamela whatever you draw it,, "make sure he has differnt boots ?"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosanne
gnostic??
~Rosanne
Honestly - this is my personal thought - it's still hard to be Catholic in the UK, see Tony Blair. Connecting the Catholic sacrament to the Arthur myth - the ultimate English myth - makes it more British. Also he was running in a very Celtic/medieval circle, those things were just popular at the time with the group he knew, like Yeats. So it's easy to see how the synthesis could occur. Not that I have evidence. . .
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firemaiden
I guess what I mean to ask is, whether the grail mystery is only there because Waite put it there in his deck? Or is it to be seen in the Marseille?
Margaret Starbird in The Tarot Trumps and The Holy Grail sees a Grail connection in the Marseille and older decks (Charles VI, etc.), but practically all her tarot history is wrong and I consider her speculations pretty wild. You can decide for yourself:

http://www.amazon.com/Tarot-Trumps-H...dp/0967842808/
Top   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosanne
how sad Waite was at the loss of a time that had been taken away. The inheritance that is now withdrawn- or known as 'The Fall' or Man's loss of Innocence. The questions we do not ask to heal the land (ourselves and thus the World). I do however find it kind of weird, that he uses what is essentially a pagan myth of regeneration (Grail Legends) to explain the Wasteland or Spiritual isolation in a Christian sense. Not because he is the first to do that- he is not- after all think of how much Christianity has borrowed from Paganism; but because I think the Tarot of Marseilles for instance (which he must have known about) is according to some exactly the same story told from a Christian perspective. Why could he not see that? Did he think the Grail Legend more ...gnostic??? After all the World card looks like Man/woman and the Robe of Glory- the final Attainment.
There's much more to Waite's mystical philosophy than just that. In essence he was looking for the thread that ran through all the Mystery Traditions, looking for the most complete and transcendent attainment story. In Chapter 9 he's just talking about the Lesser Arcana—which tell the story of the loss (though with moments of Grace and worldly happiness). The Minors also include elements from Masonry where the story of loss continues in its own way.

For Waite, the Greater Arcana tell the story of Attainment.
Top   #20




 

 


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