Does The Sun card in TdM indicate homosexuality??

kwaw

The cards indicated a definitive change in equations for sure. One of the cards was Sun, and the imagery in the cards had me think about homosexuality aspect especially considering the spread which I had done in 2011 for the same acquaintance and for the same workplace. I am not sure if the new employee is using this (homosexuality) to be in the good books, but well then you cant rule it out…And it was for this reason that I had asked this question regarding The Sun…

As I tend to think of them as twins, in this type of question I might think more of fraternalism, nepotism, jobs for the boys, the old boys network, a sharing of some common outside interest (something as simple as being fans of the same team) which enables some connection between them etc., this might include sexuality but it's not the first thing I'd think of.
 

ihcoyc

When you think of the Sun, Apollo comes to mind. Apollo, of course, had quite a few male lovers (and female ones as well) and the original kouros, a beautiful lad. Apollo was the god of music, art, and the embodiment of male beauty.
 

Zephyros

I just saw this thread, and having already written an impassioned and too lengthy post about sexuality in the King of Cups in the Using Tarot Cards section, I won't go into that again. Those who wish to read everything I have to say on the subject, and the very asking of this question, are more than welcome to do so there.

But in a nutshell, as I see it, the only way a card could indicate homosexuality is that there be another card indicating straightness. Is there?
 

gregory

I just saw this thread, and having already written an impassioned and too lengthy post about sexuality in the King of Cups in the Using Tarot Cards section, I won't go into that again. Those who wish to read everything I have to say on the subject, and the very asking of this question, are more than welcome to do so there.

But in a nutshell, as I see it, the only way a card could indicate homosexuality is that there be another card indicating straightness. Is there?

Sadly - almost every Lovers card :(

But I actually absolutely agree with you :D
 

kwaw

But in a nutshell, as I see it, the only way a card could indicate homosexuality is that there be another card indicating straightness. Is there?

Wands are straight, swords are bent (well, a little. . . curved!?)
 

Richard

I don't take the biological gender of the images literally. Strength doesn't have to be a woman holding open a lion's mouth. A man and woman in the Lovers card doesn't necessarily have to refer to a heterosexual relationship. Masculinity and femninity refer to fire and water, active and passive, blah blah blah. The Lovers could even represent the mysterium conjunctionis, the chymical wedding, the marriage of Sun and Moon, Gold and Silver. I have no trouble seeing the Lovers as referring to any sort of intimate relationship between two people. If you need to think of the woman as the one who prefers the more passive role in sexual intercoourse, or even as a guy in drag, that's okay too. :)

ETA. Oops, this is the TdM hangout. I got thrown by the title The Lovers and started thinking about 20th century decks. In the Conver, Noblet, and Dodal, it is L'Amoureux (or similar) with the singular article, so it is The Lover. It seems to refer to marriage, or preparation for marriage, and of course that was a religious sacrament to sanctify the sex act for the purpose of propagating the species (i.e., make Christian babies). Thus it was heterosexual. However, it is not too much of a stretch to extend this to same sex marriage, is it? The Tarot has to be adapted to today's culture or else it becomes a useless relic.
 

pacificwaters

I just saw this thread, and having already written an impassioned and too lengthy post about sexuality in the King of Cups in the Using Tarot Cards section, I won't go into that again. Those who wish to read everything I have to say on the subject, and the very asking of this question, are more than welcome to do so there.

But in a nutshell, as I see it, the only way a card could indicate homosexuality is that there be another card indicating straightness. Is there?

The post was very enlightening..Thank you for the link..

I don't take the biological gender of the images literally. Strength doesn't have to be a woman holding open a lion's mouth. A man and woman in the Lovers card doesn't necessarily have to refer to a heterosexual relationship. Masculinity and femninity refer to fire and water, active and passive, blah blah blah. The Lovers could even represent the mysterium conjunctionis, the chymical wedding, the marriage of Sun and Moon, Gold and Silver. I have no trouble seeing the Lovers as referring to any sort of intimate relationship between two people. If you need to think of the woman as the one who prefers the more passive role in sexual intercoourse, or even as a guy in drag, that's okay too. :)

You are very much correct about not taking the biological gender in literal sense. Neither do I. It was that just in this case, I was made to wonder considering the past spread which I had come up with (mentioned it previously). Also the transition from RWS to TdM, with being in the very learner stages for the latter, had me in a bit of doubt. It was in this sense that I actually loved to read what closrapexa had written...!
 

kwaw

Cups are - VERY curved.... :p

And deniers. . . even more so! - (Gay for Pay!?).

(No need to starve to death, me granny always told me, when your sitting on a gol' mine!)

O!
 

Zephyros

To be fair, i can also be a a gay Taliban sometimes, and get riled up at the mere mention. It's not that much of a stretch to see at least a hint of homosexuality in the card, as it is a part of cultures past and present. While I wouldn't see the card as indicating someone is gay, I can see subtle hints to stories and mythology. Although later commentators tried to purge the idea, I think it's fair to say, through modern eyes, that Jonathan and David were at least bi-sexual. Apollo has been mentioned in this thread before, and one of my favorite stories from Greek mythology is that of him and Zephyros, which was anything but "brotherly love." One of the two origin stories in Genesis hints at the Greek idea of beings with two sexes.

Indeed, in Greece homosexuality was practically part of the system, with students expected to "inspire" their older teachers with their beauty, while the teachers were supposed to serve as strong role models. In ages past, I don't think people saw love between men as "something else", but as another way of showing "manly love" (Incidentally, the roles were strict; older men were tops and the young boys bottoms, but I digress). Then, of course, Christianity came along and spoiled the party, but I could see hints of that past displayed in several cards, even if not overtly, especially in the older decks. Still, I could imagine it to be a courageous act, to paint something like that, since if people then got the same associations we get, I can't imagine how they would react.

If it is, I don't know exactly how it could relate to the Sun in its meaning, other than the obvious double-male-sun connection. Perhaps a duality of the one kind of thing, I dunno. Like LRichard said, the genders are usually interchangeable depending on the circumstances.

As an aside, though, I might say that bringing up the Decameron is a moot point; it could hump anything, and usually does.