High Priestess Vs The Empress - Sex Appeal?

Sophie

Umbrae said:
(unless there are only three phases of the moon/womanhood)
No, there are four...but the fourth is immanent - it is wrapped in all the others, hidden. Even the Empress has a mystery at the heart of her - but it's a different mystery from that of the High Priestess. It's so obvious that no-one ever sees it. Whereas with the High Priestess, you know she's hiding something. Ah, but what?

The High Priestess is my soul card. I'm beginning to know why.
 

GoddessArtemis

Personally speaking...

I admire the HP's ability to keep things to herself, and if I wanted to have a secret affair, I'd pick her because she can be secretive. But if it really came down to it, as far as sex appeal goes...I'd date the Empress myself--especially if she wasn't preggers! :p

The High Priestess seems a little too high maintenance, and since she never tells you what she wants, you're left guessing at it. That's not sexy to me.

The Empress, on the other hand, is open, giving, nurturing, magnanimous, luscious...and sexy. Yep, I'd take her over the HP for sex appeal. The Empress also is good girlfriend material...whereas the HP seems more of a "lover"...but then again, she's a bit asexual, so one has to wonder about that, too. Not like she's talking about it...LOL

GA :D
 

Thirteen

Umbrae said:
Yesssssss…but with the Moon, there's another aspect of womanhood, and human sexuality that's being ignored.
On one hand you have the cocktail waitress.
On another – you have Erin Brockovich (who used sexuality, not sex to bring corporations to their knees – an interesting image…).
Both would be represented by the High Priestess – and the fourth and usually ignored phase of the moon.
Um, no, I'd say they're both Empresses. There is abundance, practical/human creativity (as compared to HPS otherworldly/poetic creativity) and earthiness in them.

The phases of the moon are a bit problematic in Tarot given that we've got the Empress. If the HPS was just a Moon Goddess, then we'd say she was the four phases: Maiden, Mother, Crone and that dark of the Moon mystery. Mother would include that Venus aspect you mention, the motherly but sexy Cocktail Waitress that calls you "hon" and wants to know if she can get you something more. Erin Brockovich, caring about people as if they're her children even as she wears provocative clothing.

BUT in the Tarot we have The Empress there. The Demeter/Ceres/Venus as an Earth goddess. This removes (if you will) that particular aspect from the HPS and hands it to the Empress.

The HPS can represent the womb--aka the mystery of pregnancy, but the MOM is the Empress. And that includes the Cocktail Waitress who has two kids and looks after them with all her maternal might even while she also enjoys herself with a customer or two after work. That sort of EARTHY sensuality is all Empress.

And, thus, the HPS' moon remains in the sky, emblematic of mystery (including the mystery of the womb), secrets, psychic power and the sexuality of all that, rather than the earthy maternal sexuality it WOULD have if the HPS was the ONLY emblem of femininity in the deck.

In the case of the HPS, we might say that the four phases of the moon are: Selene (Sky--moon goddess), Artemis (Earth--goddess of the hunt/childbirth), Prosephone (underworld goddess) and Hecate (the cross-roads between all three--ghost/witch goddess).

The Mother aspect of the moon has been, for all intents and purposes, appropriated by the Empress. Just my humble opinion there.
 

Wonderwoman

The Other, Mysterious Woman...

The High Priestess can also represent the "Other Woman".

Umbrae, I have seen th HP as the reigning queen of Secrets, so yes it is very fitting for this to represent the other woman. I've even seen this to represent a "married woman"..a very secret type of affair.
 

firemaiden

In very early versions of the Empress and the High Priestess, there isn't much to distinguish the two figures, (I'm looking at the famous "Rosenwald sheet") : the card numbered II is a crowned woman holding a closed book on her lap, and card labled III is a crowned woman holding an orb.

Neither have much sex appeal.

But I ask you this, which is sexier, a book, or an orb?
 

Sophie

firemaiden said:
But I ask you this, which is sexier, a book, or an orb?
A book, no competition ;)
 

GoddessArtemis

firemaiden, is it possible for you to upload those two cards here? I'd really like to see them.

As far as book versus orb...I'm very partial to books, but there is something about an orb that makes you want to go..."ooo, purty" and touch it. So it's a matter of mood and state of mind.

Actually, that reminds me of Disney's "Sleeping Beauty" movie. In a way, Princess Aurora (Sleeping Beauty) can be seen as the Empress, while Malificent ("misled" Sorceress) can be seen as the High Priestess. (see pix below)

The orb can be seen as the fatal spindle, no? But the question is: does the Empress command the orb or was it handed to her by her predecessor (HP being II and Empress coming after her at III). Who's in charge?

Personally, especially in "Sleeping Beauty," I think both Aurora and Malificient have their own type of sex appeal. Matter of taste, I think! But I'm really liking the HP as Malificient and Princess Aurora as the Empress. Disney is relatable in SO many ways. LOL.

Hmmm. :)

http://members.aol.com/pixie12775/malnsb.jpg

GA
 

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Umbrae

Ah yes – the book…

6:10 Who is this that appears like the dawn,
fair as the moon, bright as the sun,
majestic as the stars in procession?

6:11 I went down to the grove of nut trees
to look at the new growth in the valley,
to see if the vines had budded
or the pomegranates were in bloom.
Before I realized it,
My desire set me among the royal
chariots of my people.

Oh – and remember, the High Priestess guards nothing except the egress.

Check the source material.

The HP existed long before the Victorian era of writers - with their prudish attitudes...I'm talking about Waite here.

Yes the Empress is Mom.

But there is another aspect of femininity that's not being represented, and denial or obfuscation does not make it go away. The darkside of maleness is represented, what about the female? Are we going to decide she's not to be represented?
 

firemaiden

GoddessArtemis said:
The orb can be seen as the fatal spindle, no? But the question is: does the Empress command the orb or was it handed to her by her predecessor (HP being II and Empress coming after her at III). Who's in charge?


Ah, well, funny you should mention the spindle, because something I omitted to say, is that III is also holding a very tall erect sceptre.

Still I vote for the book, which closed, begs to be gently opened...

I'm sorry - I don't have my scanner with me - the Rosenwald sheet is on page 131 of the Tarot Encycolpedia first volume - perhaps another would be so kind...

(p.s. A spindle is not an orb, it is a sticking up pricky thing)
Spindle (textiles)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A spindle (sometimes called a drop spindle) is a wooden spike weighted at one end with a wheel and an optional hook at the other end. It is used for spinning wool and other fibres into thread. Spindles or parts of them have been found in very, very old archaelogical sites; they may represent one of the earliest pieces of technology available to humankind.
 

GoddessArtemis

I can't find the Rosenwald sheet pictures online (didn't look too well though)...but the Labyrinth Tarot's HP and Empress have similar accoutrements: book (scroll) and scepter/orb, respectively.

Is this at all similar to the two ladies on the Rosenwald sheet, maybe?

GA
 

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