Prediction doesn't come true: Card or reader error?

gregory

tarotbear said:
Just a comment - and I am sure gregory has heard me say this before but-

It isn't so much that Tarot is 'not much good' at Yes/No readings as much as Tarot is all about the combination of Past, Present, and Future happenings. "YES/NO" does not have a past, present, or future ... you would be better off tossing a coin.
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Yes I have indeed. I toss a coin, myself :) Tarot is too dense for such a simple thing, is what I should have said. It's like trying to sweeten your coffee with JUST the sugar out of a spoonful of jam. The fruit's going to get in there and make it all weird...
 

Cacia

Miss Nine to Five said:
Very interesting feedback.

Nisaba, just to clarify...What I'm talking about is when you mention an event that doesn't happen...not that the sitter doesn't take your advice on how to handle the event. For example, if I see in my cards that fights at home with dad are coming up, I'd tell the sitter the surrounding cards are encouraging the sitter to be the bigger person/stay out of things/be mediator/etc... It's up to sitter to solve the crisis...But in this post, I'm talking about when the arguments/tension predicted never come to pass.

As a card reader, I believe there is an element of integrity to what I do, just as in any profession that assists the public and works on a professional-client relationship of trust. I need to take accountability when things don't come to pass that I've predicted. In my case, I look in my journal (and like a doofus) realize I've either misinterpreted the cards or client and I realize an event DID occur that matches up. If clients start finding predictions don't come to pass, trust breaks down and clients don't return.

But where does the ethical line need to be drawn?
When does telling someone "If any of my predictions don't come to pass, it's the universe stepping in to change things. Not my predictions being wrong" turn out to be unethical and a scam?
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Miss Nine to Five:

I see your dilemma and how to explain to a querent that your prediction did not come to pass because there is reasons beyond your control. It has happened to me in a couple of occasions but like I told the person, NOTHING IS SET IN STONE – we have free will I told her and whatever decisions you make can change the output of a reading. I can give you a glimpse into what will happened in the near future, but we are the archetype of our destiny and we make decisions in the blink of an eye that can move your life to take a different direction. One thing I know, that if certain event is meant to happened no matter the time or length it will happened because destiny is like that. There is certain things that we need to go through in order to grow up, so if this situation or event did not happened when I predicted she will experience it in the future; even though her decisions change the outcome at this point of his/her life.
 

allaboutsoul

I read through and liked many of the posts in this thread. It's a very interesting topic.

I've only been learning about the tarot off and on for a few years, but I've often been told, and like to say, that the tarot deals more in advice and possibilities than in concrete truths.
 

MissNine

Thanks everyone!

Wow I feel like I started a good topic :) thank you to everyone that's posting! I didn't realize how many members DON'T fortune tell with cards.

I do my best to interpret 1) future events my cards are reflecting, and 2) telling the sitter what my cards are advising them on how they should handle the situation.

In my experience, when those in the general public seek/pay a card reader to read cards for them, they seek predictions. If the predictions don't come to pass, they won't return to the reader, especially if they've paid money for the services. My mom can only predict the future through her dreams, and does so with great accuracy. She always jokes that if she had cards, she would be able to predict, "your life will have ups, your life will have downs. There's a person in your life with brown hair that is working against you, and there's a family member you love who has a birthday this year" or something like that. Cracks me up. It is definitely a gift (and a burden) to predict future events for others in any method.
 

MissNine

Cacia... I totally agree that it's up to us to make these events happen to an extent or change things. I love hearing sitters say "once the situation came up, I was able to do xxxxx to make it turn out better.

To other posters.... my phone screen is so small that it's hard scrolling to see all posts. I'm sorry I am not personally chiming in to your comment. But you are all making me think! :)
 

nisaba

ravenest said:
I always liked this little Sufi story; a man had a prediction that death was coming to meet him . The next day he went to the market and saw Death walking amongst the crowd looking so he rushed off home and quickly packed and travelled all the way to Samarkand and hid in ruins there. Eventually he got hungry and went to town to go to the markets. He rounded a corner and came face to face with death.

Death said to him; " There you are! I wondered why I saw you in your home town market last week ... when I knew I had an appointment with you in Samarkand. "
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Yep, the self-fulfilling or Oedipal prophecy - Oedipus's folks having been told that he would kill his father, left him to be raised by strangers, so when he met his father he saw just an obstreperous old man in his way, and killed him. I was probably still there when I first came here.

You *can* wriggle to avoid a prophecy and put yourself directly in its path. Or you can take heed of a prophecy, and live mindfully, and minimise any harm or maximise any benefit it might otherwise have brought. I did neither on the following occasion, and it played out without any obvious benefits or problems in my life:-

The instance that Gregory cited that I had a prophecy come true, was that back in the early or middle eighties a girl wandering around a café pulling single cards for people, told me I'd end up living in a house with a broken red letterbox. I laughed and forgot about it. Earlier this century, I moved into a place in a far distant town (back then I had no idea I'd ever leave the city) that I chose because it was in the right location and affordable. It was only when I'd been living there for months, that I even remembered the broken red letterbox thingie. And yes, the letterbox was red, with its paint peeling off it, rusty hinges and one piece of wood on its lid working loose. I stayed in that house a few years. I was probably still there when I first came to the forum!
 

MissNine

Hey Nisaba,

Just looked back on post you left on other page. I only meant that first sentence in response to what you wrote. Sorry if it looked like that whole response was directed at you. :)
 

ravenest

nisaba said:
Yep, the self-fulfilling or Oedipal prophecy - Oedipus's folks having been told that he would kill his father, left him to be raised by strangers, so when he met his father he saw just an obstreperous old man in his way, and killed him. I was probably still there when I first came here.

You *can* wriggle to avoid a prophecy and put yourself directly in its path. Or you can take heed of a prophecy, and live mindfully, and minimise any harm or maximise any benefit it might otherwise have brought. I did neither on the following occasion, and it played out without any obvious benefits or problems in my life:-

The instance that Gregory cited that I had a prophecy come true, was that back in the early or middle eighties a girl wandering around a café pulling single cards for people, told me I'd end up living in a house with a broken red letterbox. I laughed and forgot about it. Earlier this century, I moved into a place in a far distant town (back then I had no idea I'd ever leave the city) that I chose because it was in the right location and affordable. It was only when I'd been living there for months, that I even remembered the broken red letterbox thingie. And yes, the letterbox was red, with its paint peeling off it, rusty hinges and one piece of wood on its lid working loose. I stayed in that house a few years. I was probably still there when I first came to the forum!
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Its an interesting one ... I do not believe prediction is impossible, but it isnt 'science' (ie. by some definitions, means repeatedly getting the same results) . Some people DO have the 'ability' . I liked the story about the little girl that drew a picture of 'the right' house , 'their house' , when the family was looking for a new one. The found it and it was perfect for them and its main features and garden were as the girl drew in her picture.

Just the fact of thinking one is precognitive , or using tarot doesnt mean one is. Even if one is precognitive , they might not hit a bullseye each shot.

[ However I do know of a way to make the broken letterbox prediction come true }) ]
 

Richard

Theoretically, I don't believe that predictive divination is possible. Cumulative random quantum events can make a shambles of any prediction, and Schrödinger's Cat once and for all concretizes the possibility of a totally unpredictable future event.

Still, there may be unknown processes that make prediction possible in some cases, but I seriously doubt that the average fortune teller can tune in to such an obscure energy field.
 

nisaba

Miss Nine to Five said:
Hey Nisaba,

Just looked back on post you left on other page. I only meant that first sentence in response to what you wrote. Sorry if it looked like that whole response was directed at you. :)
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<smile> No it didn't look that way, but I was sorry you didn't engage with my comments on how a prediction coming true might show a reader not really getting through to their clients, while a prediction not coming true might be a job well done.
 
Do you sit around and shuffle your decks? What drew you to Tarot/divination?