Different needs and moon signs

LovelyMissAries

Minderwiz said:
OK, it's been a busy day, so I've not done an awful lot - but I can confirm your Ascendant is Gemini. I'm not sure how Maggie arrived as Aquarius - I tried common errors such as entering the time wrongly by 12 hours - substituting PM for AM is regularly done. Nor is it a daylight saving error,that might put the sign wrong by a sign but not four signs!

I haven't double checked the temperament calculation I made from the original data but I'm fairly sure it's correct.

Well, I'm trying to remember the contents of the message and I'm not sure if she found my ascendant in Aquarius in my individual natal chart, or a composite one of mine and my friends.

About the temperament calculation... I don't quite understand it as I've never heard or read about melancholy/sanguine stuff. But if I could paraphrase it for a moment... you're saying I'm basically a happier and more optimistic person than he is?
 

Minderwiz

The 4 humours correspond (but are not identical) to the 4 elements.

Melancholy is the 'Earthy' side, serious, grounded, the analytical, planning, structured side of people's temperament. It's what makes you think before acting, what makes you evaluate consequences and what gives you weight or gravitas. However taken to extremes, it becomes unwilling to think outside the box, being hidebound by structures and self imposed rules and regulations - being unable to act because the plan is never quite right and consequent negative thought or depression.

Both of you have above average levels, he more than you but neither to any real extreme.

Choler is similar to Fire, it's what makes you act, in modern parlance it's the driving force. It gives you agression (ideally the get up and go) but in excess it is just agression and being argumentative. Without the plans from melancholy, Choler becomes action for the sake of it, without goals or purpose. He has more of this than he does Melancholy and indeed on recalculation from the chart's I've set up, he has nothing else by one calculation and in both these are his dominant humours.

Sanguine is similar to Air, it's what enables you to be social, have good people skills, enjoy chatting and other communications with others - it gives you a desire to have fun in abundance. Take to extreme, it results in someone who has no substance and is all froth, so to speak. Melacholy adds the weight and Choler the ability to act decisively. In your case you are mainly Sanguine, with a large chunk of Melacholy and just a small dash of the last humour, Phlegm.

Phlegm, is similar to Water, A tendency to fit in with others, to take the 'shape' of the people you socialise with. There's not drive, but there is a fluidity of thought - phlegmatics, don't get ruffled and can think outside the box. Taken to extremes, they too are inactive and something of the 'cold fish' it's also hard to pin them down.

This sort of description would fit well with a modern approach based on elements, which quite a lot of Astrologers use (and indeed is a good approach) it's main difference lies in the way it's calculated. Moderns, use the signs of all planets and the ASC and MC. Traditionally the focus is on Ascendant, Moon and Sun, together with their rulers and almutens and something called the Lord or Lady of the Geniture - the strongest planet.

Taking the two of you:

He is Choleric/Melancholic - at his best he can be a good planner and translate plans into effective action to achieve objectives. He's quick witted, can think on his feet and quite witty. He wants to win though, and will find it difficult to play just for fun. He can be a bit impulsive, though his preferred mode is to think before he acts. He's not a great socialiser, fun for the sake of it is alright in small amounts but must never detract from the plan and he'll be impatient if you want fun, while he wants to 'do' something. He's probably the more 'serious' of the two (though you have a 'serious' side too).

You are Sanguine/Melancholic - you're the more sociable of the two - when he's sociable it's more likely to be because he wants something out of it, not simply for the sake of it. He's the leader, but you are the more diplomatic of the two and may smooth over feathers if he ruffles them - including your own. You've got good social skills, though you may not be the heart and soul of the party, unless you really know the people. You're good at creating rapport and putting people at their ease - however you have your own melancholic side and this can lead to you putting on a brave face - laughing on the outside, crying on the inside. You're also a planner but somehow he is more able to put plans (even yours) into action, you sort of get distracted or need to think things through again.

Melancholy is significant for both of you and it's what brings you together and enables you to appreciate each other - it's a strong point of contact a shared nature. What is more, whilst it may not set the world on fire it can be incredibly long lasting - it's a great base for a relationship.

Conflicts - he's naturally willing to argue and dispute (well more than you) You both have essentially strong Suns, yours in exaltation, his in rulership but yours is better placed in the chart.

Also your Mars is essentially stronger than his, indeed his Mars is combust trined by Saturn, and peregrine, so it misfires, so to speak. Both of you have Mars in weak parts of the chart - yours in the twelfth, his in the eighth - so again you will need to modify the temperament readings accordingly. So you might end up arguing about 'silly things'
 

LovelyMissAries

Minderwiz said:
Melancholy is the 'Earthy' side, serious, grounded, the analytical, planning, structured side of people's temperament. It's what makes you think before acting, what makes you evaluate consequences and what gives you weight or gravitas. However taken to extremes, it becomes unwilling to think outside the box, being hidebound by structures and self imposed rules and regulations - being unable to act because the plan is never quite right and consequent negative thought or depression.

Both of you have above average levels, he more than you but neither to any real extreme.

YES! It makes sense he has more Melancholy than me (in fact, your whole Melancholy description sounds like us) as he used to be suicidal, and I have suffered from depression most of my life.

Choler is similar to Fire, it's what makes you act, in modern parlance it's the driving force. It gives you agression (ideally the get up and go) but in excess it is just agression and being argumentative. Without the plans from melancholy, Choler becomes action for the sake of it, without goals or purpose. He has more of this than he does Melancholy and indeed on recalculation from the chart's I've set up, he has nothing else by one calculation and in both these are his dominant humours.

Very true indeed, could you perhaps explain to me about his Mercury in Cancer? I feel like because of the heavy degree that's in, that it affects a lot of his "Leo"-ness. I don't understand him sometimes and his actions often times contradict what he says to a degree.

Sanguine is similar to Air, it's what enables you to be social, have good people skills, enjoy chatting and other communications with others - it gives you a desire to have fun in abundance. Take to extreme, it results in someone who has no substance and is all froth, so to speak. Melancholy adds the weight and Choler the ability to act decisively. In your case you are mainly Sanguine, with a large chunk of Melacholy and just a small dash of the last humour, Phlegm.

Yes, I do seem to be the more approachable of us two like you described. I feel like I understand how to get along with people better than he does.

Phlegm, is similar to Water, A tendency to fit in with others, to take the 'shape' of the people you socialise with. There's not drive, but there is a fluidity of thought - phlegmatics, don't get ruffled and can think outside the box. Taken to extremes, they too are inactive and something of the 'cold fish' it's also hard to pin them down.

I feel like he has LOOOOOOTS of that!


Taking the two of you:

He is Choleric/Melancholic - at his best he can be a good planner and translate plans into effective action to achieve objectives. He's quick witted, can think on his feet and quite witty. He wants to win though, and will find it difficult to play just for fun. He can be a bit impulsive, though his preferred mode is to think before he acts. He's not a great socialiser, fun for the sake of it is alright in small amounts but must never detract from the plan and he'll be impatient if you want fun, while he wants to 'do' something. He's probably the more 'serious' of the two (though you have a 'serious' side too).

Yes, that's very true. He is SO incredibly good humored, and competitive. We bring it out in each other just by being ourselves. He doesn't socialize but he does love to indulge. He is definitely impulsive... in the sense that he doesn't think about how other people will be affected/impacted by his decisions. I suppose serious is a better word for it, I call him uptight. :D

You are Sanguine/Melancholic - you're the more sociable of the two - when he's sociable it's more likely to be because he wants something out of it, not simply for the sake of it. He's the leader, but you are the more diplomatic of the two and may smooth over feathers if he ruffles them - including your own. You've got good social skills, though you may not be the heart and soul of the party, unless you really know the people. You're good at creating rapport and putting people at their ease - however you have your own melancholic side and this can lead to you putting on a brave face - laughing on the outside, crying on the inside. You're also a planner but somehow he is more able to put plans (even yours) into action, you sort of get distracted or need to think things through again.

YES! And when he's sociable because he wants something out of it, I feel like that's manipulative and deceiving! About the ruffled feathers thing, SO true that I'd swear it on a stack of bibles!!! I'm kind of a planner in the sense I'll start something but I have a hard time following through. He does help me with that.


Maggie said something about our friendship being karmic, but I want to understand what makes that karmic and how it's karmic... She spoke about it being to the extent of us not being able to even BE friends because of some unstoppable force but I can't imagine my life without him in it somehow (not like "OH I'm so in love with him!" but really, I couldn't.) And I was also wondering if his Sagittarius moon shares the same attraction for my Aries sun as my sun does for his moon?


I'm so grateful you went through and explained the four elements Minderwiz! I hope you're not tired of my questions yet. :)

Melancholy is significant for both of you and it's what brings you together and enables you to appreciate each other - it's a strong point of contact a shared nature. What is more, whilst it may not set the world on fire it can be incredibly long lasting - it's a great base for a relationship.

Conflicts - he's naturally willing to argue and dispute (well more than you) You both have essentially strong Suns, yours in exaltation, his in rulership but yours is better placed in the chart.

Also your Mars is essentially stronger than his, indeed his Mars is combust trined by Saturn, and peregrine, so it misfires, so to speak. Both of you have Mars in weak parts of the chart - yours in the twelfth, his in the eighth - so again you will need to modify the temperament readings accordingly. So you might end up arguing about 'silly things'[/QUOTE]
 

Minderwiz

What I gave you is a rought sketch - keepint to the absolute simplicity from a traditional view. There are, of course, more layers that can be added. The next stage in a classical reading would be to look at 'manners' - what we would probably label 'character' as seen by others. I think his lack of action at times is due to melancholy overcoming his drive. Phlegmatics are far more adaptable to circumstances and the environment.

On his Mercury, he's got good imagination, possibly too good in that he may be prone to a fantasy view of life. This might show up in his relationship with you or indeed in any sort of partnership he enters. Incidentally fantsies don't have to be of the 'fairy tale' or Walter Mitty sort. It's a possible avoidance of reality, perhaps in periods of emotional stress. Although his Mercury is reasonably strong, it's ruled by his Moon and reason may give way to the less rational view. This isn't a typical 'Leo' expression, as a modern Astrologer would define it. He's a quick learner but may well be inconsistent (his Mercury is fast) but will be able to give good reasons for any change in his views or intentions (from his point of view).

Karma is an Eastern, specifically Hindu concept and to treat it properly from and Astrological perspective, really requires a very good knowledge and practice of Vedic Astrology. I don't have that expertise so I'm reluctant to make judgements in that area. I know quite a few modern Astrologers who try to incorporate this into a wester tropical practice, but I've never been convinced by anything that I've read from that perspective.