Tropical vs. Sidereal

Minderwiz said:

I must admit that I've no easy answer to your question.

Dave has given one possible answer from the Western siderealists but as he has pointed out they have problems with signs and sign meanings. Given the modern Sun sign bias this is a major issue.

It seems initially contradictory that signs could have the same meanings in both sidereal and tropical zodiacs, but clearly the original sign meanings and qualities were established when the two zodiacs had sidereal Aries as a start point. These meanings had a large (Northern Hemisphere) seasonal component. Indeed Deb Houlding thinks that one of the factors leading to the adoption of the Tropical Zodiac was the need to preserve the Seasonal nature of the signs, otherwise you rewrite everything about Aries and attribute it to Pisces.

My feeling would be that if you want a sidereal interpretation you go to a Vedic Astrologer, who is not hidebound by Western, especially modern Western conceptions of signs. However be warned, you won't get a Western style character reading.

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No, it seems I've asked an oversimplified question out of ignorance on the subject matter- but all the posts here have been truly enlightening and interesting as to what the differences actually entail. It makes me want to look into all this further with my own chart in hand.

I started out with Western Astrology but at some point I became curious about Vedic Astrology and started looking into that. I found that the Vedic system which uses the sidereal zodiac and the one-sign-one-house system was more accurate (in my view) and actually simpler. Today I "mix-and-match" the systems where I use the sidereal zodiac and Vedic sign/house interpretations and rulerships along with Western Progressions, Solar Returns and Transits. I know some people will probably cringe when reading this but it works for me!

Actually, you just said the very thing I was afraid to say that I might try. LOL

Amanda_04 said:

Actually, you just said the very thing I was afraid to say that I might try. LOL

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It's a slippery slope that! There are actually some professional astrologer who use elements of both systems; James Braha and Joni Patry come to mind here. They both have quite good and comprehensible books. The latter used to have free lessons on her website but I don't think they are all free anymore....

For Libra8ca

You are talking about some exalted company. One caveat about mixing and matching; some things mix, some things don't. Try to keep the differences in mind and keep notes so you can reconstruct your thinking. Have fun. Dave

Remember also that there are large cultural differences between the societies that developed the Vedic approach and the ones that developed modern Western approaches. Whether either system works effectively if translated to the other's culture is a matter of hot debate. Personally I'd go along with Dave and say try it but be very careful - have a good reason for each thing you try and try at most one or two things at a time.

One other thing that might help an approach to the overall issue is to ask the question 'Does Astrological Aries have the properties it has because of its physical position in the Ecliptic, and therefore has had those properties since the universe began or does it have those properties because when the Astrological Zodiac was developed Aries encompassed the Vernal Equinox (in the North)?

I'm not advancing an answer to that (though I do have an opinion) but the logic of an answer which suggests that Aries properties lie in it's historical relationship to the Vernal equinox also suggests that the Tropical Zodiac is the best approach to the issue of precession. That clearly also generates some problems, not least of which is the issue of Astrology in the Southern Hemisphere and the effects if any of climatic variances as we move North (or South) of the tropics.