Study Group Post 2- Sun and Moon through the houses

puppydung said:

7th House somehow relates to our marriage partnership. Thus, the placement of this house's ruler gives some insights about our marriage type/ where to meet him/her. Yet, if there is any planet in the 7th House, does it clarify the characteristic of this partner? Like the 7th house Sun will likely to marry/love a happy, sunny character who can process a great charm/power to everyone?

Click to expand...

as i understand it, sometimes the danger with a 7th house sun is finding a partner they project onto, a quote from Howard Sasportas book

"in some cases, those with the sun in the 7th may try to abscond with another persons identity by finding someone who will be big and strong for them or who will tell them what to do with their lives. or they may be preoccupied with gaining prestige and authority through aligning themselves with an important or influential figure, or by looking for a hero or heroine that they can serve and worship forever"

I can see a 7th house sun go for someone who is charming and who they dont feel they are worthy of, but they can worship. i have a few friends with sun in the 7th and thats how it has played out for them.

i think the major lesson for 7th house suns is finding their identity in relationships, not adopting one by finding someone that has the things we wish we had.

Can't remember if I posted this link before but there's a wealth of material on Skyscript, including a very good guide to houses and house meanings.

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/index.html

The sidebar on the left has a link to the houses. Simply click on the desired house number to activate the link. Deb Houlding has written one of the definitive short books on Houses. Whilst not the detailed tome of Sasportas, it is a brilliant coverage of the main meanings and uses. The whole book is here for free!!

It also contains a lot of other useful material including several interviews with top Astrologers.

Thanks Minderwiz!

Whilst i was looking through my astro folder i found more infor on moon in the 4th house:
- Find security and sense of belonging within the family
-withdraw into how to escape from lifes battles
- home is a retreat and sactuary
-very sensitive to undercurrents and atmosphere in home environment
-May not always make feelings obvious to others
-can regress into early childhood behaviour when life gets too much
-father might have emenated a safer feeling then mother
-may still be searching for father to make life safe
-strong desire to live by water
-peaceful end to life

more information about the sun and moon

I finally found the file i started working on, some of these points repeat from the first post:
Sun
Ruler of leo
Individuals approach to life
Creativity
Energy
The divine within us, the connection with the cosmos
Life force
identity
Represents the Father in patriarchal society (we get our names from our fathers in a patriarchal society, our names are our identities)
Helios or Apollo- carried sun in his chariot, inner light pushing us to better know and understand ourselves. know thy self,
remote but the essence of life
potency,
our core,
sense of personal destiny, the person we are meant to be.
It also rules the fun side of life from sport and recreation to holidays and social events
vitality

Moon
Mother, also what type of mother you need
Ruler of cancer
Sometimes people connect more to moon signs rather then sun signs.
Changeable, it appears differently all the time.
Reflects the sun has no light on its own
Security
Instinctual responses
Controls eating patterns
A side we show when comfortable
Emotional needs, how we feel emotions

For 214red

You noted in one of your posts, "my mate have has a 3rd house sun, and she gets on with her siblings but she finds it hard to find a separate identity from her siblings, and find a role for her in the family. she also has a small amount of rivalry. there is also meant to be an issue with early schooling in this house two."

I don't want to make the issue of house meanings complicated but your statement (above) offers an excellent opportunity to talk about a deeper version of house interpretation.

** The 3rd house is the house of siblings, the family (or part of it) is represented by the 4th house. "Having trouble finding her identity" can, in part, be a 1st house issue.

** Now, let's do a little mental gymnastics. Your mate, with Sun in the 3rd, will be identifying her identity as if the 3rd house was her 1st house. Simple.
Let's just go with that statement.

** The family, in part, is the 4th house of a chart. Your mate's Sun, being in the 3rd house is also ---- relative to the 4th house ---- in the 12th house of the family, relatively speaking. If the family is one focus, the 4th house will be treated as the 1st house, and your mates Sun will be in the Family's 12th house, just preceding the (temporary) 4th house acting as a 1st house.

This is why she may have trouble establishing her identity in terms of her place and role in the family---she is hidden away in a "type of 12th house situation." The size of the family (if large) could deny enough attention and time to gain recognition. Her birth sequence, if following several others, could move her down the list in terms of being able to compete with the actions of others who are older. One or two precocious siblings could just be stealing the spotlight from her. Other aspects of the chart would need to be carefully looked at in order to better define the situation.

The overall point I wanted to make, especially when considering the role of the Sun and/or Moon in houses, is that every house is both "itself" and "something else when it is related to the other houses." This technique is referred to as Derivative Houses. Robert Pelletier, an old mentor of mine, has a book called Planets in Houses which is the definitive work on this subject. (However, its detailed content is not meant for those who like light reading). Multiple meanings, cycles within cycles, and all of that sort of thing. Those of us who have done this for many years see these things without even thinking of them, which makes it hard to to teach others if we ourselves are almost "blind" to what we are doing. But, that is the fascinating aspect of astrology, its never-ending mysteries. Dave

hi dave, thanks for the interesting post.
I agree that its not just the 3rd house placement that indicates issues, however in her immediate environment she also finds this difficult. One of the hardest things about astrology to me is that certain things come from different points in the chart.My friend is the eldest of an average size family, however elsewhere in her chart she has issues with communication and also is passive aggressive so i think these issues can all combine to contribute to her 3rd house issues.

i think the mental gymnastics are good, but for us begginners am not sure it will help us clarify (which i think is one reason you need to study astrology for years to understand the subtly).

I tend to agree with you Nik, at absolute beginner level, it's first things first. I think Dave was trying to deal with the specific issue that was raised about your mate and he came up with a very interesting take.

Derivitive houses (sometimes called 'turning' the chart) has a very long history and is one of the prime techniques of interpretation in horary and event Astrology. But until the basic house meanings are grasped, it's not really something that should be explored too much.

Traditionally Astrologers tended to put more weight on the house ruler (the planet ruling the sign on the cusp of the house) than planets in the house - though they were by no means ignored. Morin reversed this idea, placing his main emphasis on the planets in the house, rather than 'absentee landlords'. Morin's view is now the dominant one, so it's important that beginners explore the planets in houses idea - though when they move on to an intermediate level, house rulers and derivitive houses become more important than at beginner level.

Astrology is not the easiest thing to learn, even if you keep to a psychological approach because much past the beginner level you begin to come into contact with a wide range of approaches. If you have the basics of one approach, it can help you deal with others, even if you have to 'unlearn' some habits.

i love all the information, i was just saying i am easily confused and am only just getting used the beginners level, and the basics so Dave's post is interesting but its bending my head.

i am enjoying it bending my head though

I know

However, your right to want to proceed in an organised fashion - get the structure fight and then begin to add the flesh. It's a very Saturnine approach but if you don't keep to it you'll be overwhelmed with all the info.

What you might try to do is start a file for 'extras' - things like Dave's post - which are not immediately useful for your studies, or you're not sure where it fits in yet, but it seems useful.

Index your file or start a new folder called 'extras' or similar and then have a series of sub folders in which you can file the stuff. If you're good on indexing you will be surprised how soon you can build up a bank of material which you can use as your studies progress.

When I renewed my studies I also kept a file of websites which I found useful, and provided me with a lot of material. Having such a list can cut down time spent on simply searching.

You've got a great sense of enjoyment and desire to learn. It's a matter of feeding that thirst for knowledge at a rate at which you can digest the material, so your 'extras' file will form a reservoir of material that will be fed into your learning process, as and when you need it.

i am trying to let my virgo and saturn win, but my leo wants to know it all NOW!