Chart Reading: Step #4, Martha Stewart -- ASC & MC, Sun & Moon

This is our next step in considering Martha Stewart's chart; looking at the ASC and MC, looking at their relationships with the Sun and Moon.

In this step #4 you should feel free to use classical astrology, mid-points, arabic parts, symbolic degrees, containments, phases or any approach that aids you in understanding and/or sharing with others your thoughts and conclusions.

We will want to leave the other planets not directly involved with the ASC, MC, Sun or Moon to a later thread. We have all been told by numerous authors and lecturers that the ASC degree "colors" the personality and the working of those planets that aspect the ASC. Here, we can determine for ourselves the extent of apparent truth in those claims. You might want to cite a sentance or two from a biography or other writing to support your conclusion.

Again, there is no right or wrong interpretation approach. Your comments in any single posting do not need to be all inclusive. You can just comment on single factors of our discussion or ask questions to clarify a point. Best of all, continue to be curious, to push your limits and to have fun. Dave.

Apart form a short paragraph relating to her father, I haven't read anything about Martha all I know has been gleaned from comments in these threads - so I'll let Dave or others kick off here whilst I find out something about the woman!

A couple of PSs

Firstly we haven't talked specifically about the Ascendant up till now, though it has ended up being considered in the Sun and Moon threads. I know Moongold mentioned Arroyo's comments on Scorpio Ascendants but didn't get the chance to follow up on it.

So if you've got any comments that are specifically related to the Ascendant or the MC that you haven't had the opportunity to make up till now - take the chance here!


Secondly, I suspect we may be using different House systems for the analysis of Martha. This hasn't caused any issue up till now and I think it's good to use different House Systems so that we can see if using a different system affects our interpretation.

However it might be worth knowing what House Systems each of us is using, so I'm going to start a parallel thread in which we can simply state the system we are using. This allows others to cross check any divergencies in interpretation to see if they're related to the House System or not.

You will find the thread at:

http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18250

Martha’s Sun squaring her Ascendant shows a conflict between how she sees herself and how others see her.

Her Scorpio Asc would show a very intense and driven woman. Plenty of energy and organisational skills. Leadership powers too, although often the need for power for its own sake. Tendency to dominate others. Jealousy and possessiveness due to emotional insecurities.

Scorpios do tend to be the “dark glasses” type. What with the eyes being the windows of the soul, no-one able to get a look in at those dark, hidden depths.

Howard Sasportas writes “There is a depth to Scorpio rising which compels those who have this placement to burrow their way to the root of an issue in search of underlying meanings and motivations. Nothing is taken at face value. But like Bluebeard’s wife they may open doors which are better left closed”

Gloria.

I hope I am right in saying that Neptune in Virgo is conjunct the midpoint between Sun and Ascendant.

Would this midpoint show a merging or relationship between Sun and Asc?

Or could it show a subtle whisper of what’s to come?
Gloria.

A Scorpio Ascendant; stairway to the cellar.

Well, maybe I'm being a little over dramatic. But, the Scorpio influence tends to lead to introspection and delving emotionally into things. Just look at some of the Sun-sign astrology and planet-in-Scorpio stuff we read in newspaper collums:

** Venus in Scorpio is the sign of a jealous lover.
** Mercury in Scorpio pry into your secrets, questions you about everything.
** Mars in Scorpio will step on your foot to see how deeply you can cry.
** Moon in Scorpio worries all day about their nightly dreams.
** Scorpio Sun's dramatize their emotions as a form of leadership.

So, what will a Scorpio Ascendant do in terms of modifying or shaping ones personality and forms of expression? Alternating self-reflecting moods with strong sharing needs expressed through available planetary outlets. A penchant for living within one's feelings and exploration of causes behind the events in their world. Melancholy, insightfullness driven by a deeper sense of awareness than many take time to experience. Pain within a quietude or self-suffering as a means of gaining understanding, retreats followed by adventures of some form.

In Martha's chart the ASC squares the Sun (closely) and Pluto. Using phase relationships (like those in Rudyhars Lunation Cycle) one can view the ASC as being in the opening square -- it has to find the means of permitting the Sun (integration strengths) to shine through her feelings, to put a bright face on things. If one views the Sun as being in the achievement phase (closing square) from the ASC, then the Sun has to produce the proof that she is successful and happy in order to fuel the aspectual bond between them.

This ASC/Scorpio and Sun/Leo combination dominates her approach to life, leaving little up-front room for the Moon and those feelings that everyone has.

The Pluto-ASC square can be looked at in a similar fashion. The personality (ASC) will struggle to deeply understand the world about her and how it works. Pluto, as a re-ordering tool for her to use, will try to demonstrate just how influential her personality can be -- in this case, perhaps -- how influential the Sun/Leo/10th house powerhouse can be. The personality expresses the Leo Sun with the goal of wielding influence.

The Sag-Moon semi-squares the ASC (struggle to cope with the rules) and sesqiquadrates (?) (135 degrees) the Sun (struggles to apply the rules). The Moon is the silent partner to the Sun, it will remain in the background under control. What a problem for a Sag-Moon. It will try to find a "night out with the girls."

Moon squaring Neptune is not typically strong except for the areas of imagination and dealing with illusion and promotion. I'd like to go into that more later, the same with Moon 150 to Saturn.

More later. Dave.

Martha seems to have a strong Scorpio influence (sun conj Pluto, trine Mars, square ASC), although to be honest I wouldn't have guessed it. So there is some strong staying power here. Also, I was mistaken, I thought I saw a square b/w Pluto and Mars, but they're too wide. There is interaction only by proxy - through the sun.

Pluto squaring ASC again brings up the theme of power, and regeneration. Unlike the sun however, ASC emphasizes more the body, persona etc so in this sense, despite having sun square ASC, they share a similar challenge through Pluto.

Scorpio is traditionally ruled by Mars and this is dignified in Aries, in the 5th house. This again emphasizes MS's will and I think, her energy level - it gives her strength to deal w/the ASC squares. Along w/the desire for recognition, success and independence, MS has the energy and tolerance for risk to get there.

One of the innovations of the modern psychological approach to Astrology is the emphasis placed on the Ascendant and the way in which Water signs, particularly Scorpio are handled.

Psychology is fascinated by the underlying, subconscious or unconscious motives and drives - thus the Ascendant, looked on as the mask we wear or the persona (latin for mask) that we project gives an indication of the underlying 'us'.

Scorpio is a Water sign and thus asssociated with the unconscious, furthermore Scorpio and Pluto are associated with the depths and subterranean levels - here we have access to a person who literally has hidden depths which direct the way in which the interact with the world and which provide a filter for the Sun's energies to interact with the world and others.

Dave provides an excellent analysis on this basis - and I don't think I can improve on it. What I can do is perhaps look at the Ascendant through other eyes. The eyes of the classical or pre-psychological Astrologer.

Now I don't think that this is the 'correct' way and that the psychological approach is wrong. Simply that as we are looking at Astrological method it may well be worth seeing an alternative. In practice both approaches may well yield very useful information for our view of Martha.

In order to keep things manageable, I'll do that as a separate post, however I can't resist taking up one of Dave's points.

Dave used the word 'Melacholy' as one of his descriptors of the Scorpio Ascendant. Now Scorpio is a Water sign - so strictly speaking its humoural association is phlegmatic - Cold and Wet - as opposed to melancholic which is cold and dry.

However, Scorpio is an Autumnal sign and in the Classical Greek Astrologers treated Autumn as Cold and Dry. So on a Seasonal basis Dave's description is just what we might expect through a Classical approach. Scorpio is cold and wet at an elemental level but cold and dry at a seasonal level. Strangely, Capricorn ruled by Saturn, the archetypal Melancholic, is Cold and Dry at an elemental level but Cold and Wet seasonally (its a Winter sign). So we have some link between Scorpio and Capricorn and between their rulers Mars and Saturn. This might prove useful later on.

Attempt at a classical Ascendant reading

There is a substantial body of evidence that the earliest form of house division was the whole sign one. Using Martha as an example, her first house is Scorpio, her second Sagittarius, third Capricorn…..twelfth Libra. It appears that the degree of the rising sign was used by the fifth or sixth centuries AD, probably using an equal house system. The Ascendant point as such though was not particularly important, unless it was aspected by a malefic or a fortunate.

The first house dealt principally with the length of life, the temperament and complexion, the awareness and understanding of the native, the native’s stature and the general fortune and health of the native. The first house indicated general health, the sixth indicated ill health. I use the word ‘principally’ because other factors would be taken into account than just the house – Sun and Moon placements for example would influence the judgement on temperament.

I’m not going to attempt to read Martha’s length of life – I’m not fully conversant with the method and it has obvious ethical implications. The length of life was a real issue in classical and medieval societies, especially in relation to a new born.

Looking at Martha specifically, we first need to know who are the Lords of the Triplicity to which Scorpio belong. I will use the ruler’s attributed by Dorotheus of Sidon and the Arabic Astrologers. For Water these are: Venus, Mars and the Moon in that order. Venus will tell us something of the early part of her life, Mars the middle and the Moon her final years. Together they will give information about health and her rearing. Venus is in the tenth – a strong placement, though Venus is in Detriment in Virgo and has a square to Jupiter – so rather awkward early years but having the potential success. Mars is in the fifth House – a good placement and even better is in its own sign – her middle years will be strong and fruitful. The Moon as we have seen is in the second, which is quite a fair placement but is rather weak in essential dignity and squares her part of fortune. There may be some troubles in the final third of her lifetime which may adversely affect her health or wealth but nothing that foretells disaster.

The Ascendant ruler is Mars, in the fifth. This would classically be interpreted as indicating she will rejoice in her children and have many friends. The Sun is also applying to a trine with Mars and from its own sign of Leo. This is a classical indicator of great power and prosperity for Martha. Here we seem to have further evidence of the potentially successful business woman

As Mars is strongly placed and trined by the Sun, I would expect Martha’s health to be strong. Mars also rules the sixth of ill health, so health problems will be related to the head, she might be accident prone, cuts, wounds, fevers and blood pressure. However none of these ought to be particularly serious given the strength of the ruler of the Ascendant.

For temperament I’m taking something of an informed guess in saying she is a choleric person. With Ascendant ruler and Sun and Moon in fire and a Summer birth that seems a reasonable guess. The choleric temperament (earth) usually has a warm, dry, rectangular or square body, tight connective tissue, yellowish complexion, and are practical and rational, yet prone to anger, irritability, and impatience. We can add possible issues relating to gall bladder, liver, digestive and eliminative systems to the health list. Again though, I would doubt that these are serious.

This is only a passing attempt at using classical methods - space and the lack of my own skills in this area restrict the extent to which I can supplement this through the use of Arabian Parts, which are often based on the Ascendant degree (where the degree does begin to become important).

Scorpio and Pluto differences.

Just a quick comment or two. First, I'm really enjoying the range of discussion and comments here. This is how we learn, and the approaches that Minderwiz and I take are both quite different and yet similar. Thats life, thats astrology. We can only practice this craft through our experience, our understanding, our ability to bring learning and sensitivity to those we come in contact with. In fact, we may largly be shaped by those that come to us.

When I see Scorpio ascendant signs I expect to see an angular, strong nose and chiseled lips. When I see Pluto conjunct the Ascendant degree I expect to see a longer head shape, close set and intense eyes, a thin nose in some cases. I first read about these attributes in a Alan Leo book from the early 1900's and have found them to be quite perceptive and applicable.

In Martha's chart, the expected ASC attributes are not obviously there. She has some aspects of the Leo Sun, perhaps some of the thinness associated with Pluto. Her manner is one of smiles and a sense of quiet nuturing sensitivity -- a complex softness that suggests understanding, guidance, patience, firmness. Others may be able to express this better than I. I just wanted to bring up some discussion on how the ASC degree might be expressed. Dave.