Lenormand Brazil: Baralho Cigano (Gypsy Deck).

DownUnderNZer

Have put it out there asking if anyone works with this system from Brazil - no bites yet.

So, as another approach I googled to see if any books or information - it came back to AT a few times, websites that no longer exist, and some book references etc.

Maybe in English it is a little more limited. :bugeyed:

So, am reviving any archives I can find on the subject from AT for now and what else seems relevant or on the topic.

I am assuming these are based on the cards in the Lenormand that "differ" in meaning.


AT ARCHIVES & INDEPENDENT WEBSITES:

1)

2)

3)

4)

5)

6)

7)



Apparently, some decks do not have the CLOVER at all and the RIDER is seen as KNIGHT and CROSS as letter if the "translation" is correct where I needed it. In addition, the Brazilian system seems to include "Spiritual" and "Mediumship" more strongly. :thumbsup:




DISCLAIMER: Look at your own peril and discernment. I cannot confirm if it is a true depiction of the system or not as it is not a system I use. However, I am sure these links on the subject do have some merit.


DND :)
 

Asher

This is interesting!

A friend brought me back a deck from Brazil when she went to visit family a few months ago. It is called Jogo de Cartas Cigano da Sorte or Gypsy Fortune Cards Game. Its publisher (or distributor) is Casa Neilomar which is a religious goods store in Sao Paulo.

The images are colorful and a bit reminiscent of the Piatnik deck. I have seen a Clover card from another Brazilian deck showing the sticks, but mine is an image of a single cloverleaf.

However, my LWB calls this card "Sticks" and says "Sticks bring adventure. Next to the Clouds, much sorrow. If the card is near the person card, the sorrow does not last long and success will be forthcoming" (thanks to Google Translate).

I haven't had time to look at other card differences yet.
 

DownUnderNZer

Thanks for stepping forward....

Be interesting to know actually the differences you find.

Sticks? That is like "Rods" therefore "Whip"....right?

Yours has a negative side to its meaning too and is similar to a European "Gypsy Deck" I have (nothing beautiful like those ones) in which the "Cloud" card influences certain cards depending on if it is the dark side of the clouds or the light side. Something like that. Maybe even all cards. I cannot remember, but will track it down as it is still packed away somewhere.

If you ever do have time it would be neat to see what you discover with the deck.

You are soooo lucky to have one.

I would like the one in that link....very very colorful and vibrant.

DND :)


This is interesting!

A friend brought me back a deck from Brazil when she went to visit family a few months ago. It is called Jogo de Cartas Cigano da Sorte or Gypsy Fortune Cards Game. Its publisher (or distributor) is Casa Neilomar which is a religious goods store in Sao Paulo.

The images are colorful and a bit reminiscent of the Piatnik deck. I have seen a Clover card from another Brazilian deck showing the sticks, but mine is an image of a single cloverleaf.
However, my LWB calls this card "Sticks" and says "Sticks bring adventure. Next to the Clouds, much sorrow. If the card is near the person card, the sorrow does not last long and success will be forthcoming" (thanks to Google Translate).

I haven't had time to look at other card differences yet.
 

gregory

Deborah Jazzini (see your other thread about these things) might well be able to help big time. She does use them - according to google ! - she is very good on Lenormand in general, with her own method as well, and she has some good looking videos - not that I can understand them. But if you can make contact, she does speak English.
 

DownUnderNZer

Just saw the other thread....
Was there this morning, but on my phone.

Will try to contact her, but it might be no easy feat if she also is writing a book. :D


Thanks!

DND :)
 

DownUnderNZer

I now see what you mean about the CLOVER card with that second one.

Even if I did not have any background on the Lenormand - I would also think "obstacles" just with how all those objects block the road.

I think even a child would be able to form the same impression.

What I find curious is the CLOVER being so "small" in it and that there is a rather decent sized "rainbow" and a little "ladybug" in the corner. It is like saying it is not all too bad because if luck is on your side you will find that gold pot at the end of the rainbow kind of thing or better days.

I need to get my hands on a deck.

This Brazilan system is something I would like to learn about more and give a go.


DND :)





There are lots of sites with meanings

Here's one for the Clover, Trefoil, or Obstacles card.
http://www.astrocentro.com.br/blog/tarot/carta-trevo-obstaculos

Here's a photo of my two Brazilian decks. Generally the #2 card seems to be about overcoming obstacles (the logs in the road that maybe appear as the "sticks" mentioned above.] The deck on the right has a modern Pagan slant.

https://marygreer.files.wordpress.com/2016/07/image.jpeg
 

Teheuti

I think the focus is on overcoming obstacles. The regular Lenormand Clover is actually supposed to be good or bad luck depending on what's around it.
 

DownUnderNZer

Well, had a chance to look at the first 12 card meanings briefly through one of the websites above.

As an introduction it puts across quite clearly that these cards are not meant to be studied, but to be intuitively read. That is fine as long as the "basic' card meanings are understood I reckon.

Either one or two does have words added to its meaning like "spiritual" and "magic".

Cards 1, 2 , 3 , 7, 9, 11 are either different in meaning to the French or German systems or a combination of the French and German systems plus extra add ons.

For example,
Card 1: Achievement of a goal. Something that has not materialized. Card 7: Deceit, Discord, Jealousy plus on top of that there is the reference to "sex" and "sexuality" etc.

As for the "Spiritual and Mediumship" side to it that I read somewhere online as being a part of this Brazilian system, there is a title for what it is called and a book out in Portuguese on it, but am not sure if it is for the Lenormand or just if a person wants to develop in general.

Need to find out more background perhaps as there is something more to it I think than just the cards.

DND :)







The Knight (Rider) differs
 

Teheuti

Need to find out more background perhaps as there is something more to it I think than just the cards.
From what I saw when in Brazil and from my friend, Deborah Jazzini, it's not a single, fixed system, so it is hard to generalize. Most professionals are not just "tarot readers." They work as consultants and healers to their clients and use whatever they believe will work in any particular circumstance. The culture is an even greater mix of ethnicities than most other places and each brings something to the table, resulting in a truly eclectic combo that depends largely on the background and interests of each particular professional consultant/healer. The spiritual aspects seem to be something that everyone understands, gives creedence to and each person employs differently. Some people have systems that incorporate each of the Orishas, for instance, and some are not so formal about it.

"Gypsy cards" were somewhat looked down on by the Tarot readers I met at the conference until they learned that I, Marcus Katz and Tali Godwin were totally into them. Then people started bringing out their own decks. Tarot, with its history, esotericism and correspondences can be a little more intellectually high-brow (on the surface), but when working with individuals they'll use whatever works. Deborah, for instance, teaches a personal system that uses correspondences between Tarot and Lenormand. Many people integrate crystals, Reiki, astrology, prayer, ritual and much more into their practice.

These are just my observations based on a week with Tarot readers, consultants, healers, and priests in Sao Paulo, and talking with Deborah about it separately.

The people I've talked to from Argentina seem to use a much more European approach to Lenormand.