Book T Minors: Libra

Continuing with our Cardinal signs to start the suit cards, we have the Air suit of Swords. The related cards are the 2 of Swords (Moon in the first decan of Libra), 3 of Swords (Saturn in the second decan of Libra) and 4 of Swords (Jupiter in last decan of Libra).

What do folks think about these cards?

Saturn is exalted in Libra and Binah is the Great Mother. You would think it would be a better card.
"Three of Swords: (Binah of Yetzirah, Sorrow, Saturn in Libra) Produces the Prince. = The beginning and ending. Giver of Death. Aralim called Thrones more properly. Heroes intensifies the Prince. Hence Sorrow. Gloomy Saturn in fiery Air repeats the idea." from The Tree of Life on the Tarot in the Four Worlds.

Libra tends to be social, cooperative, peace-loving and fair. This may also cause traits of indecisiveness, leaning toward peace at any cost. Libra would then do well with qualities of Saturn such as discipline, structure, patience, truth and solidness to obtain balance. I can begin to see why Saturn in exalted Libra.
But I am not getting the title of Sorrow. The three of swords is a card I hope to unload of past emotional stuff and come to understand more objectively.
I've been waiting for this one. Thanks, as always, Similia.

AW

This Decan is one I think about a lot. I was born in this decan (same day as Crowley actually) and I think it tends to get oversimplified.

As Teheuti points out, we’re at Binah in Yetzirah… so the great mother is there, but before everyone starts thinking of the Whole Earth Catalog, this isn’t the fluffy New Age mother, but rather the restrictive, dark, supernal womb of the Zohar. Not for nothing is she the Sea that caps the Pillar of Severity. Sorrow indeed… Tears are the widest ocean.

Saturn is the Greater Malefic so it’s entirely appropriate that this card be seen through a glass darkly… ALL of the Saturn decanates make for obstreperous cards.

But in this context, I think the most value comes from considering the decan itself: Saturn in Libra. Dignity-wise, Saturn is in his Exaltation and therefore extremely strengthened. Remember: the important thing is not the sign but rather the planet. The modern obsession with the Zodiac is an anachronism in this context. The sign is only a position, the power of astrology comes from the Planets. The PLANET is the source of light/force.

Note also, that though Saturn is exalted here, Libra is actually ruled by Venus (the lesser Benefic)… You could think of it as someone stern and scary visiting a lovely estate where his every whim is served and nothing dares get in his way.

In Greek mythology, Aphrodite (Venus) was born of the sea foam near Paphos after Cronos (Saturn) castrated his father Oranos (the Sky) with his scythe and tossed his genitals into the sea where they frothed and spontaneously generated the goddess who is the oldest of the so-called Olympians. The name Aphrodite literally means “Foam Born.” Agony produces Desire!

Or think of it elementally, Saturn is Cold and Dry, Venus is Hot and Wet. A strange blend of austerity and wit, harshness and precision, connection and detachment. Saturn is the absolute limit, the dark horizon, the scary old man out at the edge of things who points us to our beginnings and drives us home when we're passed out and yakking on our shoes. As Crowley phrases it, "A man, dark, yet delicious of countenance."

Gerald Suster has a lovely riff in his book on the Thoth about this card as the Lord of Sorrow: he points out that the 3 of Swords isn't about Suffering as in "waaaahhh I'm sad!" or "Rats I should've known he was cheating" but more an awareness of the price we pay to be alive. It is Suffering in the Mahayana sense: Suffering which always arises from Desire, the same Desire which is the underpinning of all Material Life. It's Suffering on a cosmic scale, global. The pain in Truth... I always see it as a reminder that part of being a conscious mind is accepting the pain that is a manifest part of living, not in a fatalistic sense, but in a gnostic sense. And in context it can be a beautiful positive uplifting card

There is an inherent pain to knowing how things work. Pleasure too, but at root it is a burden, a price. The Lord of Sorrows, the Three of Swords, is the tag.

Scion

Scion said:

Dignity-wise, Saturn (n.b. the Greater Malefic) is in his Exaltation and therefore extremely strengthened. The modern obsession with the zodiac is an anachronism in this context. The sign is only a position, the power of astrology comes from the Planets. Remember: the important thing is not the sign but rather the planet. The PLANET is the source of light/force. Saturn IS the Greater Malefic so it’s entirely appropriate that this card be seen through a glass darkly…

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If we are to follow this then doesn't it mean that we likewise not give too much credence to any of the signs when considering each decanate. My understanding of exaltation was that the planet operated at its best in that sign - even better than did the ruler - that Saturn's structure reached the height of elegance in Libra.

Yes, absolutely. The planet is the thing to consider first and repeatedly, although the planet is shaped by the sign, like icing. Saturn's rigidity is at it's most elegant and cruel in Libra. His limits are at their most harsh and clear and beautiful.

I always think of the motion of the planets as if they are following the rigid Xenia rituals of Homer & the Arabian Nights. Saturn is completely at his ease and authority in this house that Venus keeps. And all the little pleasures that Venus provides are everything the Greater Malefic could wish for.

This all goes back to Al-Kindi's rays. The power flows from the wandering lights that rule the spheres. The Signs are just the landscape that the planets inhabit. The modern astrological "sign" obsession" is really something that arises after Alan Leo which is long after the GD formulates Book T.

There is an old tradition involving daemonology and the decans which I'm tunneling through at the moment a manuyscript at a time, but they apply in a different way. And certainly aren't what folks have in mind when they talk aout the "power" of the signs.

Scion said:

The sign is only a position, the power of astrology comes from the Planets. Remember: the important thing is not the sign but rather the planet. The PLANET is the source of light/force.

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Good to know, I hadn’t read that yet.

Scion said:

Saturn is the absolute limit, the dark horizon, the scary old man out at the edge of things who points us to our beginnings and drives us home when we're passed out and yakking on our shoes. As Crowley phrases it, "A man, dark, yet delicious of countenance."

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Hey, I think I’ve met this guy

Scion said:

Agony produces Desire!

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I have never looked at it this way. But now that I have it explains a part of me to myself.

Scion said:

Suffering which always arises from Desire

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Two sides of the same coin again, or more like Two of Disks? Hmmmm. You've got me thinking on this.

Scion said:

The pain in Truth... I always see it as a reminder that part of being a conscious mind is accepting the pain that is a manifest part of living, not in a fatalistic sense, but in a gnostic sense. And in context it can be a beautiful positive uplifting card
There is an inherent pain to knowing how things work. Pleasure too, but at root it is a burden, a price. The Lord of Sorrows, the Three of Swords, is the tag

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I read once Sorrow compared with the Buddhist universal sorrow. After studying Magick Without Tears, especially 0 = 2, I have a sense at what you are getting at here.

Scion said:

And in context it can be a beautiful positive uplifting card

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I always thought it was a visually beautiful card (Thoth), so it seemed like there had to be more to it. I have always felt there is some beauty in sorrow, but until now didn't understand why.

Your posts are always so thoughtful and elegant, Scion, thank you.

AW

Crowley on Saturn in Libra (in the chart - not as a decanate, but with, perhaps, some application):
"In Libra Saturn is in his exaltation, and is therefore very strong and beneficent. The Venusian character of the house tempers his asperity, even though there is always some sinister implications in the association of Venus with Saturn, and the judicial function of Libra assures good balance to the conservative and concentrative force of the dark planet. We shall therefore expect to find that the natives are well able to take care of themselves, and exercise both tact and judgment in the management of their personal affairs. . . . Both the philosophical and religious temperament are well developed in this position. . . . It diminishes somewhat the austerity and selfishness of Saturn, moves the sympathies, and slightly favors the mystical side in religion."

OTOH, the Buddhist idea of "suffering" makes a lot of sense for the 3 of Swords. Thanks, Sion.

I often see it as relating to the images of the "Sacred Heart" of Mary that you find in the Catholic Church as "Our Lady of Sorrows" - Mater Dolorosa.
http://bp2.blogger.com/_lz1ywK_Mizw/RxUvVpPBqUI/AAAAAAAAAH0/YchH6Li_fqo/s1600-h/maryHeart.jpg

Any thoughts about the Two, Moon in Libra?

The Moon seems to me to be related to the inner landscape, the place where thoughts and emotions are in an indistinguishable jumble, exerting subtle influences on actions, also related to the internal representations of our relationships with others? Moon in Libra would try to untangle these, try to shed an objective light on things resisting objectivity. Also perhaps weigh impulses against each other, acknowledge that everything is relative and always try to find a balance between conflicting motives.

The Moon moves in cycles, perhaps in Libra we see the big picture of this, even though things fluctuate on the whole there is equilibrium?

How does the name Peace relate to the astrological attribution?

I've been thinking about this all day. I read in Book T the title The Lord of Peace Restored. I like the Book T titles they always give a little more insight to me. Book T meanings for Two of Swords talk of strength arising for trouble, beauty from pain. Contradictory character in the same nature.

This last sentence made me think of Crowley's comments on Adjustment, which has also the placement of Libra.
Book of Thoth "Balance against each thought its exact opposite. For the Marriage of these is the Annihilation of Illusion." Which makes me think of Peace Restored.

Only problem is I am not getting how the main theme of the Moon works in here. Emotion? With emotions balanced peace is restored?

AW