let's talk about (Golden Dawn) decks

rif

I'm determined to drive up the traffic in this forum. :)

I would like to hear about what deck(s) Golden Dawn taroists are using, and why. Or why not. I have the impression that Thoth and Liber T are the most popular.

Myself, I've mostly been using the Lo Scarabeo tarot, which I am in love with. I adore the artwork (I loved Anna Scarrini for the Manga Tarot as well). I like how the minors blend geometric work from the Thoth deck with other, often RWS, scenes. The Four of Cups is a favorite; a forlorn man at a bar, getting his fourth chalice filled, with the Thoth symbols on a painting behind him. The Four of Pentacles puts the RWS "miser" in the Thoth fortress (a favorite of mine in that deck). And the Nine of Swords has an anguished man sitting on the floor; behind him on the wall are 9 marseille-patterned swords, dripping with Thoth blood.

Despite my enthusiasm, I find the LS deck hard to use for GD-style readings. Maybe I haven't worked with the deck long enough to connect with it readily, but some of the cards are hard for me to relate to. For example, the Two of Wands. "Dominion." I can sorta see dominion, but to me the art shows a man who has a question, perhaps must make a choice or decision. I find that elemental attributes don't rush to my head; the pure white edges and gold-colored borders are clean and very attractive, but somehow make it hard for me to attach the extras. I've been working with it as my main deck for a couple of months now.

I considered Liber T, which has the Thoth basics (design + astro symbols), but it's a bit too busy for me at this stage. I can readily read the Thoth itself. A lot of people praise the Thoth as a readable deck, and I'm personally convinced that the keywords on the card help with this, especially combined with the "hints" built into the pip design. But sometimes the GD deviation bugs me, so I haven't settled down with Thoth as "the deck."

When working through the Book T examples, I've tried using a Marseilles mini as well as the LS. Mary Greer suggests this, since it's likely what the original GD members used. I don't have too much trouble with this, oddly enough. GD titles and/or RWS pics tend to come to mind for the pips, even if not instant. I do have trouble visually identifying the courts yet in this case. :)

I really like the design of the Zalewski/Duduchous deck, as seen in the Yellow Brick book. If it were mass-produced as standard-sized and color I'd get one and try it. It uses "moody pips" to key into meanings without being over-the-top; and it adheres to "pure" GD rather than getting Thelemic. (I don't object to Thelema per se, but I want Judgement as Judgement and not a new Aeon!)

In summary, I'm working mainly with the LS supplemented by the mini Marseille. I'm thinking of reverting to Thoth for convenience of GD-style reading though.

What does anyone else use? What have you tried? I'd love to hear.
 

manda78

I don't know but if I am a Golden Dawn tarotist, but the Thoth and Thoth clones are my main reading decks..If that qualifies me, right now I am using (surprise!) The Initiatory Tarot of Golden Dawn. I haven't had it long, but the Queen of Swords (and all the courts) just have Personality in the deck, so I am not left questioning the meaning of them when they show up.
One of the things that I miss when I am not using the Thoth is the geometry, I don't even study geometry but it adds something to the cards that I love.
 

Always Wondering

You guessed it, Thoth. I keep trying to use my Liber T, I like it, but it is a touch to long for my hands. I guess I could trim it.
Really am just here to help you with traffic. This sub forum is stuck a bit in the corner over here, but I see wonderful possibilities.

AW
 

Grigori

The Thoth primarily for me too, because it is the most beautiful, and my favourite. I use the Cicero's Golden Dawn Magickal on occasions too, and like the Thoth appreciate it in particular because of the use of color which is a big part of reading for me. The GD Magickal really helped me get a handle on the GD color scales. I have the Haindl and the Vision Quest which are very GDish, and I read with them occasionally also. These four are the ones I get real use out of, especially the Thoth and GD Magickal for myself, and the Haindl and Vision Quest more often for others. I spose you could add the RWS to that list, which IMO is largely a GD style deck, and I read it as if it were.

I've never been able to get any real use out the Wang Golden Dawn deck. The minors hold no appeal to me because of the lack of color and detail, and I've never gotten good results from pips like that. The Majors are interesting to study, but don't really say much when I try and read them.

The Liber T I appreciate and read all the threads on, but have not put any real effort into actually reading with it yet. Its still a foreign language to me, though so similar to the Thoth which is a daily deck. Perhaps for similar reasons I've not rushed out to get the Initiatory yet, because I prefer the moody minors to the moddy-minors-with-a-few-friends type of decks. Though I know there is a big difference between the "few-friends" in these two decks.

I recently aquired the Magickal Tarot, which doesn't seem like something I would read with, but is interesting to study. The Hermetic is a study deck also, again no color so its not a real option for a reading deck for me. Navigators of the Mystic SEA didn't do anything for me, thought I expected it would, and Tarot of Ceremonial Magick similarly is only for study. The Via tarot could be a deck for use one day, but not yet. I'm not comfortable with Enochian yet and a couple of the cards make me uncomfortable.

I'm excited that more decks closer to to the GD system are being released recently. I'm hopeful that some on the horizon will be beautiful also.
 

rif

manda78 said:
One of the things that I miss when I am not using the Thoth is the geometry, I don't even study geometry but it adds something to the cards that I love.

I know what you mean. Are you familiar with any details of the Thoth and its designs, or do you go more intuitively? I'm just curious.

I have the Initiatory Tarot but I've never read with it. Oddly enough, one of the cards that got a negative reaction here is one of my favorites. I forget the card offhand, but it is a young girl with the a head on a platter. It puts me in mind of John the Baptist. I know it's macabre, but I find it a resonant image. (Even though I'm not a fan of gore or scary media!)

Always Wondering said:
You guessed it, Thoth. I keep trying to use my Liber T, I like it, but it is a touch to long for my hands. I guess I could trim it.
I'm psychic. :laughs: Too long, eh? I like the size of the LS decks, they work well for me. I like that they are all the same size too, come to think of it.

similia said:
I use the Cicero's Golden Dawn Magickal on occasions too, and like the Thoth appreciate it in particular because of the use of color which is a big part of reading for me. The GD Magickal really helped me get a handle on the GD color scales.

I have that deck and it's one of those that got collected not used. I can totally understand how you learn color from it; it's a very vibrant deck. Do you have the color scales ingrained in your mind? I'm curious how they play into your readings. Zalewski makes a big case for the color scales; and of course BOTA has you color your own deck. I've always rather glossed over color scales as a boring subject, shame on me. Hmm, sounds like a potential new thread.

similia said:
I spose you could add the RWS to that list, which IMO is largely a GD style deck, and I read it as if it were.
...
I recently aquired the Magickal Tarot, which doesn't seem like something I would read with, but is interesting to study. The Hermetic is a study deck also, again no color so its not a real option for a reading deck for me. ... and Tarot of Ceremonial Magick similarly is only for study. The Via tarot could be a deck for use one day, but not yet. I'm not comfortable with Enochian yet and a couple of the cards make me uncomfortable.

I really love my Albano Waite. Rumor has it that it's colored along BOTA lines?

I'm mildly jealous of your Magickal Tarot, just because it looked really neat. Is it the designs that put you off?

I was recently looking at the Hermetic, but decided it looks a little too busy, and isn't for me. Same for the Ceremonial Magick deck. I think the whole Via deck was a little discomforting. Especially the couple cards I saw (online) where a bleached skull has one eye still in it!
 

thorhammer

Of the GD/Thoth decks, I use the Thoth only. I have an abiding hatred for the RWS in almost all its incarnations, and only a vague dislike for the Original Rider Waite :laugh:I keep it for reference.

Liber T is still ahead of me - I thought to work with Thoth and Liber T as a pair, but that was waaaaay ahead of where I'm at, so the Liber T languishes, sadly. Beautiful deck. Very atmospheric.

Working with the Thoth is like an arranged marriage - I have to do it (or, more to the point, can't not), but it's very odd sleeping with a complete stranger, as it were :laugh:

I have so many Tarot aspirations - unillustrated pips are high on the list, as are unconventional Tarots like the MerryDay and Ironwing and Book of Kaos. If I were able to focus less on those :laugh: I'd IDS with the Thoth, and it would probably be a lifelong monogamous relationship.

similia - I, too, am damn jealous of your Magickal. I want.

\m/ Kat
 

manda78

rif said:
I know what you mean. Are you familiar with any details of the Thoth and its designs, or do you go more intuitively? I'm just curious.

I have the Initiatory Tarot but I've never read with it. Oddly enough, one of the cards that got a negative reaction here is one of my favorites. I forget the card offhand, but it is a young girl with the a head on a platter. It puts me in mind of John the Baptist. I know it's macabre, but I find it a resonant image. (Even though I'm not a fan of gore or scary media!)

Ive studied the symbolism and geometry in the Thoth in an offhanded manner..I just don't have the time to read on it extensively. I did recently pick up Book 777 and a few other books by Crowley, not sure where that will take me.
I am consistently shocked that the Initiatory does not have more fans! I guess its just one of those things. I LOVE this deck, and think it is one of the best to be released...well, ever, I guess! :D It is a little macabre, but it makes it all the more interesting, imho. I don't think that there is a card in the deck that I don't like, honestly.
 

Grigori

rif said:
Do you have the color scales ingrained in your mind? I'm curious how they play into your readings.

Not ingrained, at least not well. But it fits together and makes sense to me now, and I can see where the various combinations and blends come from, and how they relate back to each other. Color is really important to me when I'm learning something. I make graphs and tables and stuff and the color makes it memorable. So even the other things that are not color, are more understandable to me if there is color with them.

There is a good thread on color here, with a great link from Scion.
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=96602
http://www.lelandra.com/tarotbook/TreeofLifeColors.htm

rif said:
I'm mildly jealous of your Magickal Tarot, just because it looked really neat. Is it the designs that put you off?

Well if your only mildly jealous, then should I decide to re-home it I'll call Kat first :D I got it to study from really, and couldn't read from it. Its quite abstract and not very evocative, unlike something like the Thoth where you get an instant reaction to the image. The Magickal seems more cerebral/study oriented, than a readable deck, for me at least. I guess similar to the Hermetic in a way. There is a lot there that is interesting, and I'm glad to have it, but in a spread it doesn't spark anything for me.
 

rachelcat

Just jumping in because no one has mentioned Tarot of the Sephiroth. It was the gateway drug (uh, DECK!) for me for GD decks and Kabbalah and everything! It's easy to read and quite humorous.

Also, I love the Cosmic Tribe. I keep wishing I can read with it at a nudist camp! (I know it's a Thoth clone rather than a GD-based deck, but it's pretty close.) Unfortunately, it has a "breaking" card for me--I can't do a fiery orange Death card. Death=Scorpio=water! Hellooooo?

I have the Initiatory. Maybe too many buxom Princesses for me . . . (Yes, even though I like Cosmic Tribe!)

I also have the "big yellow brick." Love that name!!!! I've been glancing through it because of this thread (instead of doing my Thoth IDS!) and I'm thinking perhaps the Initiatory is based on THOSE illustrations. Hmmm, have to browse further . . .

It looks like the yellow brick cards WERE produced as cards at one time. I may have seen them on eBay, and they're listed but not available on Amazon US. Does anyone know if any are still available?

(Long may this thread live!)
 

rif

rachelcat said:
Also, I love the Cosmic Tribe. I keep wishing I can read with it at a nudist camp! (I know it's a Thoth clone rather than a GD-based deck, but it's pretty close.)

I think most people consider the Thoth a Golden Dawn deck. Crowley came out of the GD tradition; and his cards meanings tend to show this. Plus he uses the GD color scales, and attributions for the most part.

I have the Initiatory. Maybe too many buxom Princesses for me . . . (Yes, even though I like Cosmic Tribe!)
Yes, but I think the Cosmic Tribe was more balanced in terms of gender nudity. The Initiatory does tend to favor buxom women. (Especially that overly perky Star! :D)

I also have the "big yellow brick." Love that name!!!! I've been glancing through it because of this thread (instead of doing my Thoth IDS!) and I'm thinking perhaps the Initiatory is based on THOSE illustrations. Hmmm, have to browse further . . .

Thanks, I don't know if I heard anyone else call it that; but a lot of the big heavy books have been called bricks, so it seemed appropriate to dub Zalewski's book the big yellow brick. Supposedly the Initiatory is based on Book T itself (which is mostly included in the brick), without reference to other sources. However, people have said there is similarity between elements in Initiatory and Wang's Golden Dawn deck, which I've never used. So I can only relay what other people have said. But I would hope for a certain commonality if they all reference the same source!

It looks like the yellow brick cards WERE produced as cards at one time. I may have seen them on eBay, and they're listed but not available on Amazon US. Does anyone know if any are still available?

Supposedly, they are: http://www.dandspublishing.com/

I'm glad you took time away from your IDS to stop by. Do you feel better now, after thinking of the Thoth as a GD deck? :)