Seven and Marseilles decks....

Does the number seven mean anything in particualr that one would only relate to Marseilles type decks?

I am talking Minors here, and where does the system come from and does anyone have any interesting websites to check any information out regarding Minors and Numerological references?

Many thanks in advance! XTAX

Hi T.A. ... There's no one single numerological system "hard-wired" into the Marseille deck's pip cards. You can use whatever system you feel like. Don't let anyone or any book tell you otherwise. And don't worry about experimenting. It's encouraged.

Use Pythagorean based numerology, RWS/GD-based numerology, "modern numerology", Major Arcana I to X similes, astrological numerology, cabalistic numerology, folk numerology, Biblical numerology, etc.

(Hey! by the way, that's quite a tongue-twister. Try to say "Marseille deck's pip cards", 10 times, real fast. )

The following thread contains, among other things, a discussion of many different and possible numerological approaches to the Marseille pip cards. It contains quite a few posts, by Lee, by me and by various others from the board.

http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1614

Personally, at present, I use Major Arcana I to X similes and Pythagorean numerology. I'm also experimenting with modern numerology as well, which in many ways is quite strongly influenced by Pythagorean numerology anyway. You will also find that Pythagorean numerology and Major Arcana I to X similes yield quite similar number meanings. This may be more than coincidence.

Rusty I am very interested in Pythagorean Numerology and I would never let anyone or book tell me what to do! (You have to trust me on that one...)

I read with RWS, so was looking into finding an older system, not something 'modern'. Does that all make sense?

Thanks for your help and I will check out the link XTAX

P.S. Does anyone know where I may have heard that sevens mean karmic debt?
I am still keen to hear what others think about sevens, and what system (or not) that it comes from! Thanks!

TemperanceAngel said:

I read with RWS, so was looking into finding an older system, not something 'modern'.

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In that case, Pythagorean numerology and Major Arcana I to X similes may be a good possible approach for you. Pythagorean number meanings, along with number meanings from various other numerological systems, have been around for centuries.

Rusty Neon said:

In that case, Pythagorean numerology and Major Arcana I to X similes may be a good possible approach for you. Pythagorean number meanings, along with number meanings from various other numerological systems, have been around for centuries.

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Know any good sites Rusty re: Pythagorean number meanings?
Thanks again XTAX

TemperanceAngel said:

P.S. Does anyone know where I may have heard that sevens mean karmic debt?

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I'm sure someone else will come forth with the system in which 7 is a number for karmic debt.

Interestingly, if you use Major Arcana I to X similes, it may be the number 8 which could signify Karmic Debts, as 8 is the number corresponding to the major arcanum VIII Justice in the Marseilles deck.

7 is a base number for the number 16.
The number 16 is a Karmic Debt number, so the lower vibration would be 1+6=7.
I know this is not what you mean but the words Karmic Debt are there.

ros said:

7 is a base number for the number 16.
The number 16 is a Karmic Debt number, so the lower vibration would be 1+6=7.

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Thanks ros, did you work this out from a specific system, or your own interpretation?
XTAX

TemperanceAngel said:

Know any good sites Rusty re: Pythagorean number meanings?
Thanks again XTAX

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I've never been able to find any decent compilation of Pythagorean number meanings on the web. (And no, the Pythagorean Tarot deck website isn't that helpful.)

Many of the matches that pop up through a google.com search are really "modern numerology" sites. Modern numerology is traceable to Pythagorean but is not truly Pythagorean.

What I've done in the past is post a compilation by French author Sédillot of number meanings which marry Pythagorean numerology and major arcana I to X meanings. However, I can't seem to find an Aeclectic post where I've done that.

Use Major Arcana I to X meanings for the numbers 1 to 10 and, surprisingly, you'll come pretty close to certain common Pythagorean number meanings. In a pinch, modern numerology meanings for 1 to 9 can be useful.

The History & Iconography thread that I mentioned in my first post gives some "modern numerology" number meanings for 1 to 9. (The number 10 would be rebirth, or the number 1 on a higher octave, and thus similar to the idea expressed by X Wheel of Fortune.) http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23999

I think this Karmic Debt is in most numerolgy systems.
There are 4-5 Karmic Debt numbers depending what system you use.