Legend:The Arthurian Study Group - 7 of Swords

WalesWoman

I have the book, but there are some cards that are so different that I really have to think and think. Sometimes the images knock every preconcieved meaning right out into space and when I'm feeling lazy, I'll grab the book.

Seven Swords, for instance, is nothing like 7 Swords RWS in the look. I guess the night would refer to things hidden, being in the center of the river, would be surrounded by emotion, or finding a solid center in all the surrounding emotions. I guess pulling that sword out would be a real tricky solution, knocking everyones socks off and winning the day. Or since it is in the night, stealing something in a sense, or being secretive, no one around to witness. Maybe he's practicing to see if he can do it first, before making sure there are others to see him succeed in the light of day?
 

watchman291273

WalesWoman

Yes, the the 7 of Swords is really different. And from the description of the little booklet, it's a positive card compared to RWS.

I'd see the night as a cloak to conceal his attempt. Everyone tried in vain before and he doesn't want anyone to see him fail. He's wasn't all confident in his success, and seems to look to the star for a good omen. There's 2 people in the background though but they seem to watch like it's a hopeless case

Galahad is kneeled against the stone to resist the stream, which I'd associate with rules/conventions. He's literally making a stand. It's also an identity quest to me as the sword can't be retrieved by anyone else.

HudsonGray, I know about the book. I was just trying to contribute to the 100 posts to have a board.
 

RedMaple

watchman291273 said:
I'd see the night as a cloak to conceal his attempt. Everyone tried in vain before and he doesn't want anyone to see him fail. He's wasn't all confident in his success, and seems to look to the star for a good omen. There's 2 people in the background though but they seem to watch like it's a hopeless case

Galahad is kneeled against the stone to resist the stream, which I'd associate with rules/conventions. He's literally making a stand. It's also an identity quest to me as the sword can't be retrieved by anyone else.

It is Arthur who is watching, and next to him seems to be a woman, I would guess Guinevere. In the book, it says that when Galahad saw the sword in the stone, he knew the task to be his.

Since the Grail story marks the turn towards Christianity, I think Galahad is looking toward Heaven, toward the Christian sky god. Also, his empty scabbard marks him as the one who needs this sword. I think the scabbard empty of the sword also marks him as a virgin.

The river and the fact that the rock is red (in the story, though not on the card) says that he can walk through passion and emotions and not lose his innocence.

He does have one knee bent against the rock. One knee bent was a form of obeisance, saying you are obedient to a lord, in this case, perhaps, the Christian god.

When the Grail quest starts, the Round Table falls apart. It is the beginning of the end. So in some way, I see the Grail as a kind of Trojan Horse that brings about the destruction of Camelot. It becomes the only thing the knights care about, it seems the embodiment of good, and yet it is destructive. Some say it is also the appropriation of a symbol of the Goddess into a Christian symbol, which the Goddess then used against Arthur and his knights for betraying the land and its gods.

It would be fitting that this would happen through a young virginal male, who has forsworn women in order to be "pure", as this is a Christian virtue, not a Pagan one. He pulls the sword from the red stone, the symbol of the land. This man will never have sex with the Goddess.

So, now I see this as a card of betrayal of the land and women, trickery by the Goddess, and the beginning of the end of Camelot.
 

WalesWoman

Wow! Now I won't go quite as blank for this card. Withdrawing from Earth, or even mother, as a betrayal of the land and women...or even from the heart of emotion. Too bad the coloring of the rock has been changed, the red rock would add much for this visual. Withdrawal of mental/action separated from emotion, so this would be kind of a cold, calculated act that has some hidden agenda.

It's interesting here too that the quest for the Grail, to heal the land became so obsessive that it actually becomes the downfall of the Kingdom. They weren't doing this for the "right" reasons, or lost the purpose of the Grail in their intent to find it. The hidden agenda for the this obsession, might be the glory and prestige, the honors who ever found it would recieve, their own personal gain, rather than as a selfless act of devotion to the land(mother)

watchman291273
I'd see the night as a cloak to conceal his attempt. Everyone tried in vain before and he doesn't want anyone to see him fail.
I sort of thought that as well, rise above emotions, try it out first to see if it can be done, then make your move once you know you can succeed.

So what is the significance of Arthur and Guinivere, Emperor/Empress as witnesses and watchers in the dark? 4+3=7 Oooh. I"ll have to think on this one a bit. They can give no assistance, it's something that has to be done as an individual. But the significance of the Emperor and the Empress...the bounty of the land and it's safekeeping are separated from this act by the swift, currents of the river.

The sword is what pins the connection together? Water/emotion is what nourishes the heart and welfare of the land and it's security? Even the little waterfalls- drops/lowering emotions or an obstacle in the continuous flow?

Wow...so much new food for thought.
 

RedMaple

WalesWoman said:
So what is the significance of Arthur and Guinivere, Emperor/Empress as witnesses and watchers in the dark? 4+3=7 ....

Oh, yes! I didn't see that. Arthur was brought up traditionally as a Pagan, Guinevere converts to the new religion, and eventually persuades Arthur to join her, and he breaks the vows he has made.

It is Arthur who brings Galahad to the river. Interestingly, early in his career, Arthur goes to the lake, where a hand rises above the water and gives him the sword Excalibur. It is from the Lady of the Lake herself. Now, he brings another young man to the water, in this case flowing water, rather than the stillness of the lake. Flowing water -- change?

I also think of the river as the blood of the land, the waters of birth.

The sword is the male symbol, the stone is the female. Together they have great magic and power, separated, you have the beginning of patriarchy, where men seek women only as sexual objects and vessels to provide heirs, not as sharers of power and embodiments of the land. So it is not the sword itself that is what holds everything together, but the two united, the male and the female.

I never thought I'd see this much in this card :) The Arthurian stories are so rich, aren't they? No wonder they've lasted so long. What always amazes me is that they are so lastingly relevant.
 

Lyones

I agree totally with the concept that the night is for concealment - it seems to verify that what is hoped for may not actually take place in reality, and there is a need for subtlety, perhaps to prevent shame if things don't work out as expected.

Galahad's stance speaks volumes - he leans on the rock with his knee, one hand on the sword handle ... his faith in his ability to perform the task is obvious from this I think, any other man would have wrapped both hands around it and put his foot on the rock for a good leverage, with their other foot closer to the stone for stability.

At first glance I thought perhaps he was subject to higher-forces or fate, his calling, in the way he's looking up and the arm outstretched, but on consideration, if his faith were fully focused on a god, his arm would be raised and his hand upturned in acknowledgement, which demonstrates a certain amount of self-reliance - it's almost a pretence, knowing how the telling of the story will reach the ears of many and he is playing a part for his audience. However, there is the awareness that his purpose will become clear once the sword is pulled from the rock, so that this action is only partial success and that his intent in sacrificing earthly pleasures to pursue the quest for the Grail brings his true ambitions into focus.
 

WalesWoman

Lyones said:
At first glance I thought perhaps he was subject to higher-forces or fate, his calling, in the way he's looking up and the arm outstretched, but on consideration, if his faith were fully focused on a god, his arm would be raised and his hand upturned in acknowledgement, which demonstrates a certain amount of self-reliance - it's almost a pretence, knowing how the telling of the story will reach the ears of many and he is playing a part for his audience. However, there is the awareness that his purpose will become clear once the sword is pulled from the rock, so that this action is only partial success and that his intent in sacrificing earthly pleasures to pursue the quest for the Grail brings his true ambitions into focus.

I hadn't made this connection before... that his arm and hand are turned downward and backward, almost as if to hold a force back or to say "I can do this on my own, thanks", or reaching behind him, as if there was someone holding his hand (the encouragement of those on the shore?), helping him keep his balance as the current rushes around his feet. Definately a precarious position, yet it seems almost as if he is receiving some sort of message or blessing in the night sky. Could there be a sliver of Moon, things are dimly lit or would Star light be enough?

I've been trying to decide if the star placement is any particular constellation. I've been paging through my guide to the sky and found Pegasus (the Great Square and contains Andromeda) as the closest match.
Looking at the maps, Pegasus would look like this, low on the horizon in the eastern sky in July (for those in the northern hemispheres) At first I thought it could be Gemini, but that would be June and according to this map, only a few stars from this constellation are rising, not the whole thing.

Does anyone one know any reason why that would be there?
 

Sophie-David

Pegasus in Cancer?

WalesWoman said:
I've been trying to decide if the star placement is any particular constellation. I've been paging through my guide to the sky and found Pegasus (the Great Square and contains Andromeda) as the closest match.
Looking at the maps, Pegasus would look like this, low on the horizon in the eastern sky in July (for those in the northern hemispheres) At first I thought it could be Gemini, but that would be June and according to this map, only a few stars from this constellation are rising, not the whole thing.

Does anyone one know any reason why that would be there?
Hi WalesWoman

Since the majority of July is in Cancer, then perhaps Anna-Marie is suggesting that this card is associated with Cancer. Numerically this makes sense, since she links Card #7 of the Majors - the Chariot - to Cancer, so it could follow that the Seven of Swords mirrors this designation.

Using the meaning from A Keeper of Words, the Seven of Swords denotes:
Inspiration. Enthusiasm. A new direction and purpose. The beginning of a new enterprise.
which includes some of the aspects of both The Chariot and of Cancer.

In the middle of the the Pegasus constellation on my Seven of Swords is a grey smudge that looks to me like a cross. This could be either a printing blemish or deliberate even-more-subtle-than-usual Legend imagery. Does anyone else have this celestial apparition?

David
 

WalesWoman

Ok, I finally got off my derrier and looked at this card, even with my new bifocals...I don't see a gray smudge or a cross. I've sort of been hanging back waiting to see if anyone else had noticed anything. What I do see is sort of a gray smudging in the trees behind Arthur, which with some imagination has the appearance of a cross, but it also reminds me of "thought" bubbles that appear above people in comics. Actually it looks more like smoke rising from some sort of alter/brasier in front of Arthur. I hadn't noticed that before. Smoke screen and/or offering?

I can't believe I didn't make the Cancer/Chariot connection, some days I can see the connections between all sorts of things that probably have no connection what so ever and then there are those others when I can't connect the dots to make a solid line. You are good!

Does the hilt of the sword sort of look like a cross between an eagle and a dragon? It's not the sword in the Ace or any other card I could see with a sword in it. The one in the Sun card is winged but different. It's almost the same as Excaliber in the Justice card, but not quite the same. That one does have winged dragons on either side, but this sword looks more like the hilt has almost a unicorn head with wings, maybe a horned dragon? I really need a magnifier for this deck! I won't even comment on the way the pants seem to be stretched. But now that I'm thinking in term of fire, this could be the emotion that fuels fire with all the water, the drive that motivates the fire of this sword.
 

Sophie-David

WalesWoman said:
Ok, I finally got off my derrier and looked at this card, even with my new bifocals...I don't see a gray smudge or a cross. I've sort of been hanging back waiting to see if anyone else had noticed anything.
The cross I see is in the centre of dark blue cloud that lies between the three stars on the right and the three stars on the left - there's sort of a bluish grey tracery on my card. Maybe I'm trying to mine the card for what's not really there, but of course the unconscious will pick up on these trivial details anyway, forming part of the overall response, and try to make it my business to know as much as I can of what the unconscious knows. :)
WalesWoman said:
What I do see is sort of a gray smudging in the trees behind Arthur, which with some imagination has the appearance of a cross, but it also reminds me of "thought" bubbles that appear above people in comics. Actually it looks more like smoke rising from some sort of alter/brasier in front of Arthur. I hadn't noticed that before. Smoke screen and/or offering?
Yes, the smoky fire makes sense now you mention it, I was wondering why the vegetation in that area had that blobby look to it.

WalesWoman said:
Does the hilt of the sword sort of look like a cross between an eagle and a dragon? It's not the sword in the Ace or any other card I could see with a sword in it. The one in the Sun card is winged but different. It's almost the same as Excaliber in the Justice card, but not quite the same. That one does have winged dragons on either side, but this sword looks more like the hilt has almost a unicorn head with wings, maybe a horned dragon? I really need a magnifier for this deck! I won't even comment on the way the pants seem to be stretched. But now that I'm thinking in term of fire, this could be the emotion that fuels fire with all the water, the drive that motivates the fire of this sword.
Yes, I think the hilt looks very much like dragon wings - in fact the sword looks like a battle axe in shape - so as you suggest this connects to the fire energy of the suit of swords. I realize we are meant to understand that Galahad is pulling the sword out without much thought or effort, but he's really in a very odd pose. I get the feeling that even if the sword comes out of the rock like a knife out of butter, he's going to throw himself off balance just by the arm movement. But I suppose its a way for Galahad to be shown attempting to kneel in humility in a place where actual kneeling is impractical. In kneeling on the rock he connects to the land and to the sword which is its protector, while he in turn looks to the protection of the divine above.