What's more powerful an influence? Knighting of mirroring?

Teheuti

Man and Snake are part of two 3x3s made up of:

#1
Mountain - Snake - Clover
Heart - Bear - Dog
Scythe - Paths - Man

Bear at the center could be your stored resources (saved or invested money, etc.), or a protector or parent or someone who is envious or jealous. (Bear-Mountain can even be an official at the border of a country; although I doubt if it applies here.) Mountain, Snake and Scythe are negatives. Heart and Clover are positives.

and also

#2
Snake - Clover - Moon
Bear - Dog - Clouds
Paths - Man - Rider

Dog at the center is probably speaking about a friend and/or issues of loyalty and faithfulness. Snake and Cloud are negative, while Clover and Moon (and possibly Rider) are positive.

With #1, I believe you were concerned about Man knighting both Snake and Heart.

We could read the top line of Mountain-Snake-Clover (-Moon) as his having used lies to overcome an obtacle to luck and recognition, or to luck in his career (Clover-Moon).

Mountain sits on top of Heart oppressing it. And Mountain-Heart-Scythe suggests someone has a broken heart. But Man may have the help of someone who is a protector and friend (Bear-Dog). However, Bear-Dog-Clouds suggests that jealousy and envy may be involved and that the friend is unfaithful and deceptive (Snake-Dog and Dog-Clouds).

Scythe-Paths-Man-Rider suggests that he needs to arrive at a quick decision of some kind.

He probably likes to see himself as a trustworthy friend:
Clover
Dog
Man
But that may be misguided thinking: Dog-Clouds.

Clouds-Rider suggests that a seeming resolution (house #36) may not be as clear as one would hope; in fact, it could simply be interpreted as "bad news."

If you use Rana George's meanings then these cards become even more problematic regarding the other woman, in that Moon can be romance suggesting that the obstacle (Mountain) to romance for Snake may have been successfully overcome (Clover-Moon). Furthermore, Heart-Paths is "two hearts" and Paths next to Man, for Rana, can suggest someone having an affair. His loyalties (Dog) seem to be unclear (Clouds) and divided (Paths).

Warning: I've been reading these cards from the pov of Man as Significator, but this is YOUR GT, so we have to keep in mind how all this is part of your life and, with these cards being beneath you, that you have a choice how to deal with this.

The final four cards are:
Scythe - Paths - Man - Rider. In the Houses of
Key - Fish - Anchor - Cross.

Your solution may be to make a sudden decision or cut regarding the Man and move on. It is unclear if it will happen to you or if Man will be making this decision. And Clouds-Rider casts doubt on whether anything will actually be resolved. A lot depends on how you interpret Moon and Paths. Anyway you look at it, this quadrant of the spread is messy!

I'd love to hear what Barleywine and others make of these cards. This was a very incomplete look and I might have missed much. I didn't even get into near-and-far from the Significator, so other factors may change this analysis.
 

DownUnderNZer

I only ever use the German System for this layout, so my take may be different.
Not going to go in such depth nor answer question upon question either.

The photo image is not so clear even with numbers and many look like 23 or 33.

Just adding to below:

DOG above MAN could also mean someone significant to him and if BOUQUET is on the top of the HOUSE of the MAN (I may be seeing that wrong) that indicates that there is likely a younger female that is in his thoughts which could be a child through to a younger woman in age.

MICE is directly above the House of the MAN so he is under stress or feeling anxiety and has no control over it.

BEAR is on the House of the RING, so there is likely a strong influence from a female family member in regards to the relationship, idea of marriage, and/or commitment. Could be his side or yours...even both.

The MAN is knighting with the SNAKE (House of Stars), HEART (House of RING), and MOON (House of Dog) and on the top of the house of WOMAN is STARS.

So, what do you think is being put across?

With the WOMAN on the house of MOUNTAIN there is some kind of "block" either with you or with you and him and with the FOX right next door to you on the house of CROSSROADS that seems to be something to consider as well in the equation.

What is your take on it Bonny?

Then there is the distance between the MAN and WOMAN - you are a little ahead of him in goals and aims, he is steps behind you, and not quite on the same wave length or with the same mind set just yet.




DND :)






Man and Snake are part of two 3x3s made up of:

#1
Mountain - Snake - Clover
Heart - Bear - Dog
Scythe - Paths - Man

Bear at the center could be your stored resources (saved or invested money, etc.), or a protector or parent or someone who is envious or jealous. (Bear-Mountain can even be an official at the border of a country; although I doubt if it applies here.) Mountain, Snake and Scythe are negatives. Heart and Clover are positives.

and also

#2
Snake - Clover - Moon
Bear - Dog - Clouds
Paths - Man - Rider

Dog at the center is probably speaking about a friend and/or issues of loyalty and faithfulness. Snake and Cloud are negative, while Clover and Moon (and possibly Rider) are positive.

With #1, I believe you were concerned about Man knighting both Snake and Heart.

We could read the top line of Mountain-Snake-Clover (-Moon) as his having used lies to overcome an obtacle to luck and recognition, or to luck in his career (Clover-Moon).

Mountain sits on top of Heart oppressing it. And Mountain-Heart-Scythe suggests someone has a broken heart. But Man may have the help of someone who is a protector and friend (Bear-Dog). However, Bear-Dog-Clouds suggests that jealousy and envy may be involved and that the friend is unfaithful and deceptive (Snake-Dog and Dog-Clouds).

Scythe-Paths-Man-Rider suggests that he needs to arrive at a quick decision of some kind.

He probably likes to see himself as a trustworthy friend:
Clover
Dog
Man
But that may be misguided thinking: Dog-Clouds.

Clouds-Rider suggests that a seeming resolution (house #36) may not be as clear as one would hope; in fact, it could simply be interpreted as "bad news."

If you use Rana George's meanings then these cards become even more problematic regarding the other woman, in that Moon can be romance suggesting that the obstacle (Mountain) to romance for Snake may have been successfully overcome (Clover-Moon). Furthermore, Heart-Paths is "two hearts" and Paths next to Man, for Rana, can suggest someone having an affair. His loyalties (Dog) seem to be unclear (Clouds) and divided (Paths).

Warning: I've been reading these cards from the pov of Man as Significator, but this is YOUR GT, so we have to keep in mind how all this is part of your life and, with these cards being beneath you, that you have a choice how to deal with this.

The final four cards are:
Scythe - Paths - Man - Rider. In the Houses of
Key - Fish - Anchor - Cross.

Your solution may be to make a sudden decision or cut regarding the Man and move on. It is unclear if it will happen to you or if Man will be making this decision. And Clouds-Rider casts doubt on whether anything will actually be resolved. A lot depends on how you interpret Moon and Paths. Anyway you look at it, this quadrant of the spread is messy!

I'd love to hear what Barleywine and others make of these cards. This was a very incomplete look and I might have missed much. I didn't even get into near-and-far from the Significator, so other factors may change this analysis.
 

Bonny

Man and Snake are part of two 3x3s made up of:

#1
Mountain - Snake - Clover
Heart - Bear - Dog
Scythe - Paths - Man

Bear at the center could be your stored resources (saved or invested money, etc.), or a protector or parent or someone who is envious or jealous. (Bear-Mountain can even be an official at the border of a country; although I doubt if it applies here.) Mountain, Snake and Scythe are negatives. Heart and Clover are positives.

and also

#2
Snake - Clover - Moon
Bear - Dog - Clouds
Paths - Man - Rider

Dog at the center is probably speaking about a friend and/or issues of loyalty and faithfulness. Snake and Cloud are negative, while Clover and Moon (and possibly Rider) are positive.

With #1, I believe you were concerned about Man knighting both Snake and Heart.

We could read the top line of Mountain-Snake-Clover (-Moon) as his having used lies to overcome an obtacle to luck and recognition, or to luck in his career (Clover-Moon).

Mountain sits on top of Heart oppressing it. And Mountain-Heart-Scythe suggests someone has a broken heart. But Man may have the help of someone who is a protector and friend (Bear-Dog). However, Bear-Dog-Clouds suggests that jealousy and envy may be involved and that the friend is unfaithful and deceptive (Snake-Dog and Dog-Clouds).

Scythe-Paths-Man-Rider suggests that he needs to arrive at a quick decision of some kind.

He probably likes to see himself as a trustworthy friend:
Clover
Dog
Man
But that may be misguided thinking: Dog-Clouds.

Clouds-Rider suggests that a seeming resolution (house #36) may not be as clear as one would hope; in fact, it could simply be interpreted as "bad news."

If you use Rana George's meanings then these cards become even more problematic regarding the other woman, in that Moon can be romance suggesting that the obstacle (Mountain) to romance for Snake may have been successfully overcome (Clover-Moon). Furthermore, Heart-Paths is "two hearts" and Paths next to Man, for Rana, can suggest someone having an affair. His loyalties (Dog) seem to be unclear (Clouds) and divided (Paths).

Warning: I've been reading these cards from the pov of Man as Significator, but this is YOUR GT, so we have to keep in mind how all this is part of your life and, with these cards being beneath you, that you have a choice how to deal with this.

The final four cards are:
Scythe - Paths - Man - Rider. In the Houses of
Key - Fish - Anchor - Cross.

Your solution may be to make a sudden decision or cut regarding the Man and move on. It is unclear if it will happen to you or if Man will be making this decision. And Clouds-Rider casts doubt on whether anything will actually be resolved. A lot depends on how you interpret Moon and Paths. Anyway you look at it, this quadrant of the spread is messy!

I'd love to hear what Barleywine and others make of these cards. This was a very incomplete look and I might have missed much. I didn't even get into near-and-far from the Significator, so other factors may change this analysis.

Man and Snake are part of
Man and Snake are part of two 3x3s made up of:

#1
Mountain - Snake - Clover
Heart - Bear - Dog
Scythe - Paths - Man

Bear at the center could be your stored resources (saved or invested money, etc.), or a protector or parent or someone who is envious or jealous. (Bear-Mountain can even be an official at the border of a country; although I doubt if it applies here.) Mountain, Snake and Scythe are negatives. Heart and Clover are positives.

and also

#2
Snake - Clover - Moon
Bear - Dog - Clouds
Paths - Man - Rider

Dog at the center is probably speaking about a friend and/or issues of loyalty and faithfulness. Snake and Cloud are negative, while Clover and Moon (and possibly Rider) are positive.

With #1, I believe you were concerned about Man knighting both Snake and Heart.

We could read the top line of Mountain-Snake-Clover (-Moon) as his having used lies to overcome an obtacle to luck and recognition, or to luck in his career (Clover-Moon).

Mountain sits on top of Heart oppressing it. And Mountain-Heart-Scythe suggests someone has a broken heart. But Man may have the help of someone who is a protector and friend (Bear-Dog). However, Bear-Dog-Clouds suggests that jealousy and envy may be involved and that the friend is unfaithful and deceptive (Snake-Dog and Dog-Clouds).

Scythe-Paths-Man-Rider suggests that he needs to arrive at a quick decision of some kind.

He probably likes to see himself as a trustworthy friend:
Clover
Dog
Man
But that may be misguided thinking: Dog-Clouds.

Clouds-Rider suggests that a seeming resolution (house #36) may not be as clear as one would hope; in fact, it could simply be interpreted as "bad news."

If you use Rana George's meanings then these cards become even more problematic regarding the other woman, in that Moon can be romance suggesting that the obstacle (Mountain) to romance for Snake may have been successfully overcome (Clover-Moon). Furthermore, Heart-Paths is "two hearts" and Paths next to Man, for Rana, can suggest someone having an affair. His loyalties (Dog) seem to be unclear (Clouds) and divided (Paths).

Warning: I've been reading these cards from the pov of Man as Significator, but this is YOUR GT, so we have to keep in mind how all this is part of your life and, with these cards being beneath you, that you have a choice how to deal with this.

The final four cards are:
Scythe - Paths - Man - Rider. In the Houses of
Key - Fish - Anchor - Cross.

Your solution may be to make a sudden decision or cut regarding the Man and move on. It is unclear if it will happen to you or if Man will be making this decision. And Clouds-Rider casts doubt on whether anything will actually be resolved. A lot depends on how you interpret Moon and Paths. Anyway you look at it, this quadrant of the spread is messy!

I'd love to hear what Barleywine and others make of these cards. This was a very incomplete look and I might have missed much. I didn't even get into near-and-far from the Significator, so other factors may change this analysis.

two 3x3s made up of:

#1
Mountain - Snake - Clover
Heart - Bear - Dog
Scythe - Paths - Man

Bear at the center could be your stored resources (saved or invested money, etc.), or a protector or parent or someone who is envious or jealous. (Bear-Mountain can even be an official at the border of a country; although I doubt if it applies here.) Mountain, Snake and Scythe are negatives. Heart and Clover are positives.

and also

#2
Snake - Clover - Moon
Bear - Dog - Clouds
Paths - Man - Rider

Dog at the center is probably speaking about a friend and/or issues of loyalty and faithfulness. Snake and Cloud are negative, while Clover and Moon (and possibly Rider) are positive.

With #1, I believe you were concerned about Man knighting both Snake and Heart.

We could read the top line of Mountain-Snake-Clover (-Moon) as his having used lies to overcome an obtacle to luck and recognition, or to luck in his career (Clover-Moon).

Mountain sits on top of Heart oppressing it. And Mountain-Heart-Scythe suggests someone has a broken heart. But Man may have the help of someone who is a protector and friend (Bear-Dog). However, Bear-Dog-Clouds suggests that jealousy and envy may be involved and that the friend is unfaithful and deceptive (Snake-Dog and Dog-Clouds).

Scythe-Paths-Man-Rider suggests that he needs to arrive at a quick decision of some kind.

He probably likes to see himself as a trustworthy friend:
Clover
Dog
Man
But that may be misguided thinking: Dog-Clouds.

Clouds-Rider suggests that a seeming resolution (house #36) may not be as clear as one would hope; in fact, it could simply be interpreted as "bad news."

If you use Rana George's meanings then these cards become even more problematic regarding the other woman, in that Moon can be romance suggesting that the obstacle (Mountain) to romance for Snake may have been successfully overcome (Clover-Moon). Furthermore, Heart-Paths is "two hearts" and Paths next to Man, for Rana, can suggest someone having an affair. His loyalties (Dog) seem to be unclear (Clouds) and divided (Paths).

Warning: I've been reading these cards from the pov of Man as Significator, but this is YOUR GT, so we have to keep in mind how all this is part of your life and, with these cards being beneath you, that you have a choice how to deal with this.

The final four cards are:
Scythe - Paths - Man - Rider. In the Houses of
Key - Fish - Anchor - Cross.

Your solution may be to make a sudden decision or cut regarding the Man and move on. It is unclear if it will happen to you or if Man will be making this decision. And Clouds-Rider casts doubt on whether anything will actually be resolved. A lot depends on how you interpret Moon and Paths. Anyway you look at it, this quadrant of the spread is messy!

I'd love to hear what Barleywine and others make of these cards. This was a very incomplete look and I might have missed much. I didn't even get into near-and-far from the Significator, so other factors may change this analysis.

Hi Teheuti ,

Thank you for taking the time to analyse the spread. I really didn't anticipate you would look further into it. The content of what you have written is something I want to reply to - first and predominantly on the method you have used to deconstruct the matrix.
I see the 3 x 3 reading you have given. This is helpful! It seems this is a first line approach to working with the GT, whereas before I thought the houses mattered most... As you said, they offer supplementary knowledge.

First, I am not wishing to detain you with burdensome details on my situation of enquiry. My purpose in this thread wasn't to practice reading the entire GT, but to understand the guiding principles in how to approach , especially the knighting/mirroring. It's tricky to do that without looking at the whole GT as you said. Thanks for the extra mile you guys have replied to! This is only a GT for August.... Had I known what our discussion would lead to I would have cast one for a longer term!!

I will also look at extending the three card interpretations with a further card as you have shown here too.

Re my feedback (which might be clunky as I'm a little lost with some of the alternative directions in your parlance ... Something I find hard, for example you are right , a border security person is not part of my reality this month (or most months) ...there would be other equally disqualifiable notions as well but I'm not sure when or how to know which ones to dismiss other than by my own intimate knowledge of the situation.

First, since start of August I have experienced shocking betrayal by a close member of my family and another close friend (jealous). This could be snake? In that first sequence.

Second, he and I work together.
(In this reading I wonder if I am showing up as the 'other woman' or not??)
In any case we have not disclosed our relationship to people at work. This might be the 'deception ' the cards say is there. ?? By keeping private we are helping the professional process for everybody (to prosper /be lucky). It's no ones business in our workplace and Wil only make obstacles.

It seems likely that man has a broken heart. (I do too). This has been caused by the meddling of his mother (Bear) or his ex and there would be jealousy there regarding me and the joy he feels with me in his life. There is deception and double play towards him by this person - they're not in his best interests because they have almost paralysed him.

I don't know if he likes to think of himself as a trustworthy friend. He has been feeling terrible all due to the toxic abuse from his ex every day, and the negative judgement from others for leaving that marriage/where the children are.

A solution this month is unlikely. This has been going on for almost a year now and nothing's happening now except a lot of fervent desire expressed by both of us in the limited , restrained means we can. So the clouds -rider combo makes sense... No solution in August . (Divorce is imminent though ...maybe this is the scythe???)

The Rana George's meanings don't really add up sorry. Because colleagues have very recently commented to me that they overhear the abuse coming from her to him and the impuning effect that has on him. Moon meaning recognition makes sense. And this might be divorce related? (Connections via personal life with attorneys is lucky for her on this). I think the path to do with bringing up his kids uninhibited is what he wants an to be with me. That could be the 'two hearts'...

Yes, true, this was MY GT. So I'm not sure how this works around him so vividly. I guess that's the power of the sugnificator?!

The last part is confusing. Without wishful thinking too much, could this point to his divorce? It's around him and I know they have a financial arrangement (fish/key) ...

---

Thank you VERY much!!

Bonny
 

Bonny

I only ever use the German System for this layout, so my take may be different.
Not going to go in such depth nor answer question upon question either.

The photo image is not so clear even with numbers and many look like 23 or 33.

Just adding to below:

DOG above MAN could also mean someone significant to him and if BOUQUET is on the top of the HOUSE of the MAN (I may be seeing that wrong) that indicates that there is likely a younger female that is in his thoughts which could be a child through to a younger woman in age.

MICE is directly above the House of the MAN so he is under stress or feeling anxiety and has no control over it.

BEAR is on the House of the RING, so there is likely a strong influence from a female family member in regards to the relationship, idea of marriage, and/or commitment. Could be his side or yours...even both.

The MAN is knighting with the SNAKE (House of Stars), HEART (House of RING), and MOON (House of Dog) and on the top of the house of WOMAN is STARS.

So, what do you think is being put across?

With the WOMAN on the house of MOUNTAIN there is some kind of "block" either with you or with you and him and with the FOX right next door to you on the house of CROSSROADS that seems to be something to consider as well in the equation.

What is your take on it Bonny?

Then there is the distance between the MAN and WOMAN - you are a little ahead of him in goals and aims, he is steps behind you, and not quite on the same wave length or with the same mind set just yet.




DND :)

Hi DND,

I'm so grateful for your post!

My brain is a bit zonked at the moment and Id like to consider respectfully what you have written so I'll write back tomorrow.

Be back then,

Many thanks!!

Bonny
 

Teheuti

It's worth looking at what is under you and surrounding Key:

Stork - Lilies - Ring
Mice - Key - Garden
Bouquet - Stars - House

This 3x3 includes the Queen and King of Hearts and the Queen and King of Spades - the couples that rule the two best suits in Lenormand, plus Ring and Stars. Mice is the only problematic card (although it does fall under Cross) and, as it is near the Significator, it is likely that whatever is 'taken' will be recovered. Woman knights Mice and Garden so what is taken may be some public opinion, which will be restored. I see Bouquet as a gift or invitation (perhaps coming from the Man as it is in house 28 and it knights and mirrors both Kings within the 3x3). So I see stress in your relationship to this Man coming from the false opinions of others (Garden+Fox) but, in comparison to all the beauty, love and commitment in this 3x3, this is relatively minor, however there could be a little over-idealizing on your part of this Man so that you see only the best in him. Cross as the first card in the spread may signify that this month you'll have to really look at the burdens you've taken on in this relationship. The religious connotation of Cross asks if one has the faith required to bear up under the burdens.

Note: I don't use the 9x4 tableau and rarely use houses, except for chaining.

I just noticed that Cross is in the house of Rider and Rider is in the house of Cross. Also Anchor is in the house of Bouquet and Bouquet is in the house of Man and Man is in the house of Anchor. Rather an amazingly tight grouping involving the important 4 corners! Heart is in its own house. This spread may be a little more significant than you think.
 

Barleywine

I decided to look at this first from the position of the "other woman" (Snake). The knighting from that card seems to hang together vividly:

She has her man (Snake - Man)
She has stability (Snake - Anchor)
She has money (Snake - Fish)
She possibly has his child, or wants to (Snake + Child)
But she stands to lose this (Snake - Scythe)
And there seems to be trouble on the horizon (Snake - Clouds)

The Snake as a woman has been described as "not easily likeable," but maybe she's just trying to protect what she has.

By immediate proximity (cards touching or close), the Snake is not in bad shape:

The only negative cards (Coffin and Mountain) are behind her, and their influence is fading

Th Clover and Moon are directly ahead of her, showing that she is feeling fortunate and has reason to believe her reputation will not be tarnished (perhaps she feels she has the "moral high ground")

The Sun above and the Bear below look very empowering to me

The Ship and the Dog on the diagonals suggest that she has opportunity (Ship) and support, possibly from another man (Dog) who could be a mutual friend (Dog also touching the Man)

She is above the Man, implying that she has power over him.


The Man seems to be less well-disposed:

He is in the last row of the spread, showing that he has little control over his circumstances; he is also far to the right side, with little indication of what might be in store for him.

Besides knighting to the Snake, he knights to the Heart and the Moon, two cards charged with feeling, but the Moon also relates to reputation, and this may be what the "other woman" is holding over his head; she seems to have the Moon on her side.

The series Tower-Scythe-Crossroads-Man interests me. The Man might be considering (Crossroads) severing (Scythe) the institution of marriage (Tower) with the "other woman" (the Heart touches the Snake, the Tower and the Scythe, and the Snake knights to the Scythe). I would say her present status could be in jeopardy. House+Whip in front of the Tower suggest that domestic troubles may have led up to the need for the Man to contemplate formal separation.

The decision is difficult (Crossroads knighting to Mountan and Clouds), and could be costly (also knighting to Fish) while still offering a little bit of hope (knighting to Clover) for perhaps snatching a small victory out of the clutches of the Snake.

The Bear is also touching the Man, so I'm wondering if the "other woman's" mother might be an ally of his, although she might also be a pawn of the Snake's manipulations.

The Dog also touches the Man, making me think the mutual friend might be trying to mediate between them.

The Man touches the Clouds that the Snake is knighted to, and the dark side (at least in my deck) is toward both of them; the Clouds is in an influential position, to the right, close to the Man, and tied into both significators: trouble brewing.

The Rider touching and just ahead of the Man made me think "Who ya gonna call?" Since the Bouquet (which can mean "assistance") mirrors the Rider, maybe it will be a marriage counselor.

Now the Woman:

Although she is above and in a position to influence him, she is far away and well to the left, implying that her impact on him is negligible. The main things tying them together would seem to be "hope" and "longing" (intersection to the Star and the Ship as mentioned earlier). One thing I missed before is that they mirror one another "on the diagonal," which would strengthen this sense of heightened - and perhaps "fated" - connection.

The series Woman-Lilies-Key-Star implies that she might think "sexual favors" are the key to furthering her aspirations.

The series Woman-Ring-Fox-Tower shows that her interest in a "formal arrangement"(Ring) is in some doubt (Fox) depending on what happens with the Man's "institutionalized commitment" (Tower = marriage?) Maybe the Man is keeping her "on the hook" (Fox) while he deliberates (Crossroads). It wouldn't be the first time that sort of behavior happened in a "love triangle" situation.

What I'm wondering is where all the lawyers are in this. Perhaps it hasn't reached that point yet (unless that "mediator" [Dog] represents legal counsel).

In summary, the "other woman" seems to have the inside track for the moment, while the Woman has only an outside chance, no matter how powerful the attraction between her and the Man. I think the Scythe and the Clouds hold the situation in their figurative hands right now.
 

Bonny

I only ever use the German System for this layout, so my take may be different.
Not going to go in such depth nor answer question upon question either.

The photo image is not so clear even with numbers and many look like 23 or 33.

Just adding to below:

DOG above MAN could also mean someone significant to him and if BOUQUET is on the top of the HOUSE of the MAN (I may be seeing that wrong) that indicates that there is likely a younger female that is in his thoughts which could be a child through to a younger woman in age.

MICE is directly above the House of the MAN so he is under stress or feeling anxiety and has no control over it.

BEAR is on the House of the RING, so there is likely a strong influence from a female family member in regards to the relationship, idea of marriage, and/or commitment. Could be his side or yours...even both.

The MAN is knighting with the SNAKE (House of Stars), HEART (House of RING), and MOON (House of Dog) and on the top of the house of WOMAN is STARS.

So, what do you think is being put across?

With the WOMAN on the house of MOUNTAIN there is some kind of "block" either with you or with you and him and with the FOX right next door to you on the house of CROSSROADS that seems to be something to consider as well in the equation.

What is your take on it Bonny?

Then there is the distance between the MAN and WOMAN - you are a little ahead of him in goals and aims, he is steps behind you, and not quite on the same wave length or with the same mind set just yet.




DND :)


Hi DND,

Thanks for your impressions and helpful conversation on it.
No need to worry, there won't be multiple questions posed.


Yes, he has child who's female. Very devoted father.

Yes the stress has been and is a factor that I for one want to see gone as soon as possible.
His mother is very vocal about our relationship. My family care a lot but not vocal in that way.

The card sequence you delineated suggests that the man is connected to a woman he finds inspiring and has an agreement with, and is loyal to that (romantic / reputation-based) connection - woman /stars is that longing spoken about on an earlier post.
My take? C finds me inspiring. His ex? Not at all. They fight all the time. The moon (reputation idea that Barleywine suggested) has been a factor, as she unfortunately berated him and uses the social connections as much as she can in a manipulative fashion for money etc etc (we all know the story of these things).


There is distance between us, which carries a lot of meaning in the GT, I see.

So, DND, your reading method here has been through the combination of cards foremost and the houses used just a little to, as Teheuti said, supplement the cards wherd they lie in relstion to each other.

Thank-you!! Great learning for me. I am taking notes. As stated earlier, this is about learning . Not the content itself.

Bless!
 

Bonny

I decided to look at this first from the position of the "other woman" (Snake). The knighting from that card seems to hang together vividly:

She has her man (Snake - Man)
She has stability (Snake - Anchor)
She has money (Snake - Fish)
She possibly has his child, or wants to (Snake + Child)
But she stands to lose this (Snake - Scythe)
And there seems to be trouble on the horizon (Snake - Clouds)

The Snake as a woman has been described as "not easily likeable," but maybe she's just trying to protect what she has.

By immediate proximity (cards touching or close), the Snake is not in bad shape:

The only negative cards (Coffin and Mountain) are behind her, and their influence is fading

Th Clover and Moon are directly ahead of her, showing that she is feeling fortunate and has reason to believe her reputation will not be tarnished (perhaps she feels she has the "moral high ground")

The Sun above and the Bear below look very empowering to me

The Ship and the Dog on the diagonals suggest that she has opportunity (Ship) and support, possibly from another man (Dog) who could be a mutual friend (Dog also touching the Man)

She is above the Man, implying that she has power over him.


The Man seems to be less well-disposed:

He is in the last row of the spread, showing that he has little control over his circumstances; he is also far to the right side, with little indication of what might be in store for him.

Besides knighting to the Snake, he knights to the Heart and the Moon, two cards charged with feeling, but the Moon also relates to reputation, and this may be what the "other woman" is holding over his head; she seems to have the Moon on her side.

The series Tower-Scythe-Crossroads-Man interests me. The Man might be considering (Crossroads) severing (Scythe) the institution of marriage (Tower) with the "other woman" (the Heart touches the Snake, the Tower and the Scythe, and the Snake knights to the Scythe). I would say her present status could be in jeopardy. House+Whip in front of the Tower suggest that domestic troubles may have led up to the need for the Man to contemplate formal separation.

The decision is difficult (Crossroads knighting to Mountan and Clouds), and could be costly (also knighting to Fish) while still offering a little bit of hope (knighting to Clover) for perhaps snatching a small victory out of the clutches of the Snake.

The Bear is also touching the Man, so I'm wondering if the "other woman's" mother might be an ally of his, although she might also be a pawn of the Snake's manipulations.

The Dog also touches the Man, making me think the mutual friend might be trying to mediate between them.

The Man touches the Clouds that the Snake is knighted to, and the dark side (at least in my deck) is toward both of them; the Clouds is in an influential position, to the right, close to the Man, and tied into both significators: trouble brewing.

The Rider touching and just ahead of the Man made me think "Who ya gonna call?" Since the Bouquet (which can mean "assistance") mirrors the Rider, maybe it will be a marriage counselor.

Now the Woman:

Although she is above and in a position to influence him, she is far away and well to the left, implying that her impact on him is negligible. The main things tying them together would seem to be "hope" and "longing" (intersection to the Star and the Ship as mentioned earlier). One thing I missed before is that they mirror one another "on the diagonal," which would strengthen this sense of heightened - and perhaps "fated" - connection.

The series Woman-Lilies-Key-Star implies that she might think "sexual favors" are the key to furthering her aspirations.

The series Woman-Ring-Fox-Tower shows that her interest in a "formal arrangement"(Ring) is in some doubt (Fox) depending on what happens with the Man's "institutionalized commitment" (Tower = marriage?) Maybe the Man is keeping her "on the hook" (Fox) while he deliberates (Crossroads). It wouldn't be the first time that sort of behavior happened in a "love triangle" situation.

What I'm wondering is where all the lawyers are in this. Perhaps it hasn't reached that point yet (unless that "mediator" [Dog] represents legal counsel).

In summary, the "other woman" seems to have the inside track for the moment, while the Woman has only an outside chance, no matter how powerful the attraction between her and the Man. I think the Scythe and the Clouds hold the situation in their figurative hands right now.


I decided to look at this first from the position of the "other woman" (Snake). The knighting from that card seems to hang together vividly:

She has her man (Snake - Man)
She has stability (Snake - Anchor)
She has money (Snake - Fish)
She possibly has his child, or wants to (Snake + Child)
But she stands to lose this (Snake - Scythe)
And there seems to be trouble on the horizon (Snake - Clouds)

---

Thanks - I see the way the deductions are made from significator to accompanying cards here.

Her 'living in denial' has been an issue. That she 'has' these is debatable.


---



The Snake as a woman has been described as "not easily likeable," but maybe she's just trying to protect what she has.

--


She fights with most in her life. Hence 'unlikable' sadly , fits.

---

By immediate proximity (cards touching or close), the Snake is not in bad shape:

The only negative cards (Coffin and Mountain) are behind her, and their influence is fading

Th Clover and Moon are directly ahead of her, showing that she is feeling fortunate and has reason to believe her reputation will not be tarnished (perhaps she feels she has the "moral high ground")

---

Her reputation will probably stay intact and no one wants any infringement on that. But those who know know the reality of the 'moral high ground' which is appearance (not reality)

---


The Sun above and the Bear below look very empowering to me

--

She has a very solid family background that unfortunately has kept her quite immature and not grown up for the responsibilities she has taken on. They rescue her.


---

The Ship and the Dog on the diagonals suggest that she has opportunity (Ship) and support, possibly from another man (Dog) who could be a mutual friend (Dog also touching the Man)

---

This other man is a relative who is an attorney and who is a friend of man's also. Well detected B! You note this later. Yes the dog is the lawyers. The man is very naive to these processes. She is likely to do very well out of the break up

---


She is above the Man, implying that she has power over him.

--

She has a very bossy irrational persona. She has intruded and abused and used the children to guilt him into bring her puppet. Man is slowly thawing out from the thwarting pain of that the longer he is away from her.


---

The Man seems to be less well-disposed:

--

He is genuine. He gives everything he has for the kids. As noted before, she exploits that,

---

He is in the last row of the spread, showing that he has little control over his circumstances; he is also far to the right side, with little indication of what might be in store for him.

--

Yes, he has been overwhelmed by her tirades and rage for years and is trying to manage.

--


Besides knighting to the Snake, he knights to the Heart and the Moon, two cards charged with feeling, but the Moon also relates to reputation, and this may be what the "other woman" is holding over his head; she seems to have the Moon on her side.

---

Got it in one.
She and her relative are manipulating him via caustic rubbish about his reputation. I know that's a load of reprehensible control mongering. (I have been through this before as a kid in a similar situation) but Man is trusting and still very hurt by it all so he is trying to protect

---

The series Tower-Scythe-Crossroads-Man interests me. The Man might be considering (Crossroads) severing (Scythe) the institution of marriage (Tower) with the "other woman" (the Heart touches the Snake, the Tower and the Scythe, and the Snake knights to the Scythe). I would say her present status could be in jeopardy. House+Whip in front of the Tower suggest that domestic troubles may have led up to the need for the Man to contemplate formal separation.

--

Halleluiah!!
Yes , house/whip - the fighting was what led to the need for him to leave the place eighteen months ago and what is leading to her jeopardising now. It's not me. I was a late arrival to this society. That scythe is what I pray will destroy the destructive process that that marriage has been. Dear God, may it be so. She might grow up when that happens too.

---

The decision is difficult (Crossroads knighting to Mountan and Clouds), and could be costly (also knighting to Fish) while still offering a little bit of hope (knighting to Clover) for perhaps snatching a small victory out of the clutches of the Snake.

--

Amazing you can see this. This is by virtue of the knighting. Great!!
Yes, clearly it will cost him but he might be able to as you say 'snatch a small victory' - I confirm this because I can sense it re the way those energies seem to conflate and combust there in their affiliation.

--


The Bear is also touching the Man, so I'm wondering if the "other woman's" mother might be an ally of his, although she might also be a pawn of the Snake's manipulations.

The Dog also touches the Man, making me think the mutual friend might be trying to mediate between them.

--

His mother is very strong and is averse to the ex's manipulations - there's no love lost there. It could be her mother but once again, she isn't on good terms with them - however they purchase stuff for her (probably a goodness for the children)
Yes, this (Dog) is the relative of hers who is an attorney as mentioned earlier. Well picked up!!

I know who he is and his connections run deep and were scrutinising who I am in Man's life.

---

The Man touches the Clouds that the Snake is knighted to, and the dark side (at least in my deck) is toward both of them; the Clouds is in an influential position, to the right, close to the Man, and tied into both significators: trouble brewing.

--

Yes, trouble is ALWAYS brewing there - combat

---


The Rider touching and just ahead of the Man made me think "Who ya gonna call?" Since the Bouquet (which can mean "assistance") mirrors the Rider, maybe it will be a marriage counselor.

---

Not sure on that ... Possibly - or someone just for him to speak to - sounds wise .


---


Now the Woman:

Although she is above and in a position to influence him, she is far away and well to the left, implying that her impact on him is negligible. The main things tying them together would seem to be "hope" and "longing" (intersection to the Star and the Ship as mentioned earlier). One thing I missed before is that they mirror one another "on the diagonal," which would strengthen this sense of heightened - and perhaps "fated" - connection.

---


I am an integrity based person and have deliberately chosen to be true but not controlling or part of this problem. I could have influenced Man far mor strongly but realised that my 'joy' in being with him now if it caused others 'sorrow' would not be joy at all. Yes, yes, yes! The fated depth of this relationship between Man and I is intense and undeniable

--

The series Woman-Lilies-Key-Star implies that she might think "sexual favors" are the key to furthering her aspirations.


---

Nah - the possibility to use that was there ages ago, but that's just not how I live.
The cards are correct that those lines of energy are on offer. Not for me though. And ultimately not fit for the man he is. (Nor for the ambience his children would be bathed in consequentially )


---


The series Woman-Ring-Fox-Tower shows that her interest in a "formal arrangement"(Ring) is in some doubt (Fox) depending on what happens with the Man's "institutionalized commitment" (Tower = marriage?) Maybe the Man is keeping her "on the hook" (Fox) while he deliberates (Crossroads). It wouldn't be the first time that sort of behavior happened in a "love triangle" situation.



---

Yes, it's uncertain.
It's in a TONNES AND TONNES better place than it was earlier this year. I can see the trajectory. I can participate in it but not control it.
He knows I want him to get divorced.
We work together (Fox) . He is very possessive of me so that 'hook' idea might "hold" (excuse the pun) . It's not a love triangle.
It was over between them in a love sense for years before I met him on a personal level (not professional) ...
It's is love between he and I.
It's grief and combat between them.
It's love between he and his children.

---

What I'm wondering is where all the lawyers are in this. Perhaps it hasn't reached that point yet (unless that "mediator" [Dog] represents legal counsel).

--

Correct!!

---

In summary, the "other woman" seems to have the inside track for the moment, while the Woman has only an outside chance, no matter how powerful the attraction between her and the Man. I think the Scythe and the Clouds hold the situation in their figurative hands right now.

This is correspondent to the situation - well read. Really dextrous! I'm happy to be spared the mess of the spear-throwing for now (that inside track is embroiled negativity) - and when that scythe severs it will be a brilliant new day for all concerned.

I am unintrusive and so I can't see the scythe getting close enough to me to be relevant to me. There's nothing to cut. I have been staying well away to let them sort out their business.

---


Hi Barleywine,

Your efforts and clarifications in this are incredible. Completely unexpected and truly instructive so thank - you!!

The main priorities I hear you telling me are:
1. Proximity of cards to each other
2. Combinations of cards

Then knighting techniques are used.

Thank-you!

My notes will be in situ above in reply to the reading you have provided here.
 

Bonny

Thank-you Barleywine, Teheuti & DND !

Phenomenal!

Time to close on this thread now - thanks one and all!!

Blessings,

Bonny :)
 

DownUnderNZer

I see what I thought was WOMAN is actually GARDEN.
You should have written out the cards as the photo image is not great.

The distance between the MAN and WOMAN is quite a lot and the MOUNTAIN is on the house of the BEAR and BEAR on the House of RING. Plus the MOUNTAIN is right in the middle of the MAN and WOMAN like there is lack of communication between you both. In fact, it is likely been going on for some time. There are blocks. (No change even with the WOMAN not on the house of MOUNTAIN).

Some female like a mother or grand mother is not in favor of something in this situation either - whether it is about a trio or even just two people. Dead set against it.

And with the MAN there is more on his mind than just one person with the DOG above him and BOUQUET on his HOUSE plus the SNAKE. You are not among any of them if the WOMAN is your Significator.

Socially, it is like nothing is really happening, and people are talking as the RING is on top of the HOUSE of BIRDS/OWLS and BIRDS are on top of the house of FOX.

So, whatever is being said, is based on half truths and malicious gossip, but it does not show a concrete relationship in these cards which can cause that kind of stir as well. The MAN and WOMAN are no where near each other and although the HEART is on HEART (the right place) the RING and HEART are not close to either of them nor are any of the main cards on or near the right houses except for HEART.

Nothing wrong with wanting to be loved and loved in return (HEART on HEART), but with WOMAN on CLOVER and TREE on SHIP it is like you are looking for the right opportunity or another chance and for things to improve.

MAN is on the ANCHOR, so he is work focused as well or making himself busy with it as any incoming news or messages cause him upsets and doubts. Look at the surrounding cards.


Bottom line is: I do not really see a stable relationship in these cards regardless of an ex or not.




DND :)