Marcolini, Francesco.

Fulgour

MARCOLINI, Francesco.

£35000

First edition (a second edition appeared in 1550).A fine copy of Marcolini's fortune-telling book, with verses by Lodovico Dolce. Unlike other texts on cartomancy and the art of fortune-telling using standard playing cards or tarot cards, the important point in Marcolini's system is that it is the book itself which is the game, not the cards. Marcolini was in fact adapting an earlier "fortune telling" method which relied on a "fortune" book or 'Libro di sorti' i.e. a book where you could find sentences telling you fortunes. These sentences were numbered, and there was a chart at the end of the book. All these books ask the 'consultant' to use a random generator -- mostly dice. Then according to the chart you get a page number and a sentence number which is supposed to answer your questions. Some books use playing cards instead of dice, e.g. the so-called German 'Kartenlosbuecher' Here playing cards are not actually 'read': they are just used to give you a page/sentence number. It is the great difference between these early methods and later cartomancy.

MARCOLINI, Francesco. Le sorti... intitolate giardino di pensieri. Venice. F. Marcolini. 1540

Folio., Italic letter, woodcut title by G. Porta, portrait in architectural frame, large woodcut cartouche and device on last leaf and woodcuts in text., Eighteenth-century English binding of red morocco, gilt border on covers, spine gilt in six compartments and lettered in one, gilt edges.

Fulgour

edited to credit author:
by Andrew Steinmetz Esq.

"It must be admitted that this practice--however absurd
in its object and application--does great credit to human
ingenuity. Once admitting the possibility of such conjuring,
it is impossible to deny the propriety of the reasonings
deduced from the turning up, the collocation, or the
juxta-position of the various cards, when the formalities
of the peculiar shuffle and cut required have been duly
complied with by the consulter. The cards are first shuffled
ad libitum, then cut three different times, and laid on a table,
face upwards, one by one, in the form of a circle, or more
frequently nine in a row."

From his edition:
The Gaming Table: Its Votaries and Victims, Vol. II - CHAPTER XIII.

Fulgour

A Big Hand for the Little Lady

Fortune Teller - Cartomancy

http://www.thefortuneteller.i12.com/Cartomancy.html

Huck

Re: A Big Hand for the Little Lady

Fulgour said:
Fortune Teller - Cartomancy

http://www.thefortuneteller.i12.com/Cartomancy.html

The picture shown on the page doesn't look to me like "from 15th century".

"The art of cartomancy, or divination by playing-cards, dates from an early period of their obscure history. In the museum of Nantes, France, there is a painting, said to be by Van Eyck, representing Phillipe le Bon, Archduke of Austria, and subsequently King of Spain, consulting a fortune-teller by cards. This picture, of which a transcript is here given, cannot be of a later date that the fifteenth century."

But it is said, that it is only a transcription. Where is the original ... the writer leaves that an open question.

Fulgour

according to the following article:

The earliest work on cartomancy was written or compiled by
one Francesco Marcolini, and printed at Venice in 1540.
THE FOLKLORE OF PLAYING CARDS

The long disputed questions respecting the period of the invention of playing-cards, and whether they were first used for purposes of divination or gambling, do not fall within the prescribed limits of this paper. Its object is simply to disclose—probably for the first time in print—the method or system of divination by playing-cards, constantly employed and implicitly depended upon, by many thousands of our fellow-countrymen and women at the present day.

by Hillman's Hyperlinked

Huck

Re: A Big Hand for the Little Lady

Fulgour said:
Fortune Teller - Cartomancy

http://www.thefortuneteller.i12.com/Cartomancy.html

Interesting, the link you posted in the other thread seems to be the source of the above, it notes:

"The art of cartomancy, or divination by playing-cards, dates from an early period of their obscure history. In the museum of Nantes there is a painting, said to be by Van Eyck, representing Philippe le Bon, Archduke of Austria, and subsequently King of Spain, consulting a fortune-teller by cards. This picture, of which a transcript is here given, cannot be of a later date than the fifteenth century. "

... the solidity jumps in the eyes

Phillippe le Bon was never archduke of Austria, but - right - contemporary to Jan van Eyck as Phillippe the good of Burgund. The other Philippe, son of Emperor Maximilian, might have been Archduke of Austria, I don't know, rather uninteresting, yes, and he never became King of Spain, but nearly, cause of dying too early being born at a time, when Jan van Eyck and Philippe the Good already looked the grass from the other side. Yes, right, his son Charles V.
became somehow King of Spain, but also Emperor.

A Kingdom of Spain didn't exist at the time of Jan van Eyck.

Cerulean

Related pictures..

The main link has three sections: under Fortune Telling there are samples of a page from a Marcolini-style book. The main page of the Image of the Magician; Tricksters at the Fair and Fortunetelling may give an idea of different historical fortune-telling book references...

http://cccw.adh.bton.ac.uk/schoolofdesign/MA.COURSE/LFraud.html

Hope that is helpful.

Cerulean

Huck

Fulgour said:
Francesco Marcolini, ed. Lettere scritte al signor Pietro Aretino.
2v. Venice: Francisco Marcolini, 1551

"The smaller type is even more remarkable, as in it the principles of the formal chancery are applied to a letter of the Aldine size. All the characteristics of the larger italic just described are found, and the essential difference between the two schools clearly illustrated. The letters are separately and carefully formed, and in consequence the appearance of a hasty script which typifies the Aldine
is avoided."

A. F. Johnson - Type designs (1959), p.105

Hm ... does it refer to something I said before?

A truthsaying cartomancer in the time of van Eyck (died 1441) would be a sensation. But when you've to learn, that Philippe the Good of Burgund, who was accompanied by Jan van Eyck in 1428 to Portugal, was in that reality Archduke of Austria and became King of Spain, you start to doubt the validity of the source.

Nonetheless I would like to see the original of the "transcription", which is said to be in Nantes and "clearly from 15th century".

To avoid misunderstandings: I spoke of this 2 links.

http://www.thefortuneteller.i12.com/Cartomancy.html

http://www.thebookofdays.com/months/feb/21.htm#THE FOLK-LORE OF PLAYIN

Ah, I understand ... I overlooked this link:

"'The art of cartomancy, or divination by playing-cards, dates from an early period of their obscure history. In the museum of Nantes there is a painting, said to be by Van Eyck, representing Philippe le Bon, Archduke of Austria, and subsequently King of Spain, consulting a fortune-teller by cards. This picture cannot be of a later date than the fifteenth century. "

quoted in chapter XIII of

http://www.worldwideschool.org/library/books/socl/socialconcerns/TheGamingTable-2/chap13.html

Yes, interesting, how the words start to wander through the web ...

... 3x the same nonsense on 3 different sites and nobody quoted, if I see that right.

But what has Marcolini with this passage to do? You wanted to say ... that this is the Marcolini-thread? Is that the reason that you cited me, educating me a little bit to stay to the original theme?

Hm ... no problem, I was just so upset about a cartomancer-picture from 15th century, which was announced in the link, that you posted, and which, as finally registered, appeared 3x times in the links you posted in nearly the same words - altogether containing the same misunderstanding of historical context.

As I said, the "

... the solidity jumps in the eyes

", so the the solidity of the sources jumped in my ideas and it became a theme for itself.

Still I'm really interested in this cartomancer-picture from 15th century.

And here is the 4th appearing of the text in the web and thanks to the clear voice of Jess Karlin at:

http://jktarot.com/cham.html

"This material was first published in 1864 in Robert Chambers' Book of Days, a collection of traditions associated with each day of the calendar. What Chambers called the "folklore of playing cards" appears in the section detailing traditions for February 21 (Vol I, page 281). What is interesting about this short survey is that it provides a mid-19th-century glance at the social role of fortune-telling in British society. At the same time it provides hints about the way in which cartomancy may have been spread throughout Europe (i.e., by armies and their camp followers), and discusses a divination method and card meanings which clearly influenced the descriptions given by people like A. E. Waite (on page 111 of his Manual of Cartomancy Waite duplicates the card meanings given here by Chambers), later in the century. (jk)"

the clouds do lift and I do know now, who's responsible.

There was somebody about 140 years ago (Chambers) and then, 140 years ago, there was a picture in Nantes, and then Chambers had an opinion about this picture and together that resulted in a confusing theory. As a further development it resulted, that website

http://www.worldwideschool.org/library/books/socl/socialconcerns/TheGamingTable-2/chap13.html

reported about the passage ... but this goes back to a guy named Andrew Steinmetz, and as I learn from internet, this wrote 1870, and if I perceive that right, he copied from Chambers. But Andrew Steinmetz' e-text seems to deform the original, actually it is a footnote and he really cites Chambers - but it is unclear at the website, without research I wouldn't have realized, that it is a foot-note.

And then I come to the link, that you

above offered as:

"The earliest work on cartomancy was written or compiled by
one Francesco Marcolini, and printed at Venice in 1540.

THE FOLKLORE OF PLAYING CARDS ### this was your link

http://www.thebookofdays.com/months/feb/21.htm#THE FOLK-LORE OF PLAYIN

The long disputed questions respecting the period of the invention of playing-cards, and whether they were first used for purposes of divination or gambling, do not fall within the prescribed limits of this paper. Its object is simply to disclose—probably for the first time in print—the method or system of divination by playing-cards, constantly employed and implicitly depended upon, by many thousands of our fellow-countrymen and women at the present day.

by Hillman's Hyperlinked"

.... but what you really have there is Chambers "Book of the Day", which was commented by Jess Karlin, which is either from 1864, as Jess wrote, or 1869, as the link itself tells.

...

you fooled me a little bit, Fulgour.

Still I'm interested only in the reality behind these slumby words. Which picture he had in mind and what is it really?

Fulgour

Huck said:
Still I'm really interested in this cartomancer-picture
from 15th century.

"In the museum of Nantes there is a painting,
said to be by Van Eyck..."

reads the article, and

"This picture, of which a transcript is here given,
cannot be of a later date than the fifteenth century."

[note: this is referring to the picture from the articles]

Huck

Fulgour said:
"In the museum of Nantes there is a painting,
said to be by Van Eyck..."

reads the article, and

"This picture, of which a transcript is here given,
cannot be of a later date than the fifteenth century."

Good Luck!

This info is 140 years old !!!!!!!! And considerably wrong in its side-context.