Huck
Well, in some points Hesiod tells the story a little different than me. I should comment this:
Hesiod wrote:
http://www.greekmythology.com/Books/Hesiod-Theogony/Theog__116-206_/theog__116-206_.html
"But
afterwards she (Gaia) lay with Heaven (Uranos) and bare deep-swirling Oceanus,
Coeus and Crius and Hyperion and Iapetus, Theia and Rhea, Themis
and Mnemosyne and gold-crowned Phoebe and lovely Tethys. After
them was born Cronos the wily, youngest and most terrible of her
children, and he hated his lusty sire.
(ll. 139-146) And again, she bare the Cyclopes, overbearing in
spirit, Brontes, and Steropes and stubborn-hearted Arges (6), who
gave Zeus the thunder and made the thunderbolt: in all else they
were like the gods, but one eye only was set in the midst of
their fore-heads. And they were surnamed Cyclopes (Orb-eyed)
because one orbed eye was set in their foreheads. Strength and
might and craft were in their works.
(ll. 147-163) And again, three other sons were born of Earth and
Heaven, great and doughty beyond telling, Cottus and Briareos and
Gyes, presumptuous children. From their shoulders sprang an
hundred arms, not to be approached, and each had fifty heads upon
his shoulders on their strong limbs, and irresistible was the
stubborn strength that was in their great forms. For of all the
children that were born of Earth and Heaven, these were the most
terrible, and they were hated by their own father from the first."
Hesiod starts with the 12 Titans, then the 3 Cyclopes and then the 3 Hecatonchiren (100 arms). This is a slightly different idea.
One should see Hesiod's idea like this:
You have 64 .... you know, the Greek love the 64.
Nr. 64, 63, 62, 61, 60, 59, 58, 57, 56, 55, 54, 53
- these are the 12 Titanes
Then the 3 Cyclopes:
Nr. 52, Nr. 51, Nr. 50
.... and then you've 49 left
and 49 "is 50" (Greek interpretation)
then you tell these 49 are
"three other sons were born of Earth and Heaven, great and doughty beyond telling, Cottus and Briareos and
Gyes, presumptuous children. From their shoulders sprang an
hundred arms, not to be approached, and each had fifty heads upon his shoulders on their strong limbs, and irresistible was the
stubborn strength that was in their great forms. For of all the
children that were born of Earth and Heaven, these were the most terrible, and they were hated by their own father from the first."
And their number is 3, cause the whole consideration jumps out of the trigram-definition of heaven.
For the observation of the mathematical scheme it's not very important, if you tell a specific row of action or not, it's somehow unnecessary, but the creative poet can do something about it. So Hesiod did choose this way.
In the question of the age of the Titans Hesiod tells this story:
"But
afterwards she (Gaia) lay with Heaven (Uranos) and bare deep-swirling Oceanus,
Coeus and Crius and Hyperion and Iapetus, Theia and Rhea, Themis
and Mnemosyne and gold-crowned Phoebe and lovely Tethys. After
them was born Cronos the wily, youngest and most terrible of her
children, and he hated his lusty sire."
which in Hesiod's idea gives this small riddle (compare the line of the names above):
male 64 (or 1): Okeanos
male 63 (or 2): Koios
male 62 (or 3): Krios
male 61 (or 4): Hyperion
male 60 (or 5): Iapetos
female 59 (or 6): Theia
female 58 (or 7): Rhea
female 57 (or 8): Themis
female 56 (or 9): Mnemosyne
female 55 (or 10): Phoibe
female 54 (or 11): Tethys
male 53 (or 12): Kronos
Well, one might conclude, that this a forgery of later time, the whole thing is a little unsystematical, so it seems possible, but these poets loved their riddles and so our opinion is, that it is intention ... of the poet.
The in later mythology often used order was organized this way:
6. Kronos - Rhea
5. Hyperion - Theia
4. Krios # Themis
3. Iapetos # Mnemosyne
2. Koios - Phoibe
1. Okeanos - Tethys
The "order by age" suggested by Hesiod combined with the "mathematical rule", that older sons has to marry younger daughters would give this result:
6. Kronos - Theia
5. Iapetos - Rhea
4. Hyperion - Themis
3. Krios - Mnemosyne
2. Koios - Phoibe
1. Okeanos - Tethys
Both rows contain only one "mistake" and the whole concept "men are older than women" a third one. Let's speculate about the reasons:
* 1st "mistake": Greek mythology is "originally" a matriarchalic concept. Gaia (earth) is mother to the male Uranos (heaven) and Pontos (sea).
So the daughter-Titans should be older than the son-Titans. Probably they were so "originally". But with Okeanos as the oldest the concept is changed. As a rememberance to the older state Kronos is still the youngest.
* 2nd "mistake": Iapetos is in Hesiod's list "high" and in the really relevant list "degraded"" (on position 3 instead of position 5)
Why? Iapetos was by semitic mythology a father of mankind as one of the 3 sons of Noah, then known as Japhed to the biblical texts. Greek mythology integrated this semitic approach to explain the world, but - as usual - they perrceived themselves as having the better concept of th gods, they had to degrade this foreign import. In the mythology-story this did lead to a specific detail in the fight of the Titans, in which Japetos was thrown in the Tartaros. In the system this means, that Iapetos was degraded from position 5 to position 3, as a result the figures Krios and Hyperion were raised a little bit.
* 3rd "mistake": Theia ("light") is above Rhea.
The Greek Olympic cult was not a sun-religion, but the Greek knew sun-religions and probably in their "high time" they felt superior to the other interpretations. In their concept "Theia" was degraded, Rhea, mother to the Olympian sextett, was raised.
---------
One other detail: Hesiod gives the number of the Harpiyen as 2 and only mentions Iris and not Arke. So he reaches as grand-children from Pontos/Gaia without Eurybia's children only 61 - not 64. ...
.... but with Eurybia's children he had also 64 ...
The Greek poets not always had the same opinion .. but I think, one can rely on the idea, that they meant "64" and not 61.
Huck (based on earlier considerations of autorbis)
Hesiod wrote:
http://www.greekmythology.com/Books/Hesiod-Theogony/Theog__116-206_/theog__116-206_.html
"But
afterwards she (Gaia) lay with Heaven (Uranos) and bare deep-swirling Oceanus,
Coeus and Crius and Hyperion and Iapetus, Theia and Rhea, Themis
and Mnemosyne and gold-crowned Phoebe and lovely Tethys. After
them was born Cronos the wily, youngest and most terrible of her
children, and he hated his lusty sire.
(ll. 139-146) And again, she bare the Cyclopes, overbearing in
spirit, Brontes, and Steropes and stubborn-hearted Arges (6), who
gave Zeus the thunder and made the thunderbolt: in all else they
were like the gods, but one eye only was set in the midst of
their fore-heads. And they were surnamed Cyclopes (Orb-eyed)
because one orbed eye was set in their foreheads. Strength and
might and craft were in their works.
(ll. 147-163) And again, three other sons were born of Earth and
Heaven, great and doughty beyond telling, Cottus and Briareos and
Gyes, presumptuous children. From their shoulders sprang an
hundred arms, not to be approached, and each had fifty heads upon
his shoulders on their strong limbs, and irresistible was the
stubborn strength that was in their great forms. For of all the
children that were born of Earth and Heaven, these were the most
terrible, and they were hated by their own father from the first."
Hesiod starts with the 12 Titans, then the 3 Cyclopes and then the 3 Hecatonchiren (100 arms). This is a slightly different idea.
One should see Hesiod's idea like this:
You have 64 .... you know, the Greek love the 64.
Nr. 64, 63, 62, 61, 60, 59, 58, 57, 56, 55, 54, 53
- these are the 12 Titanes
Then the 3 Cyclopes:
Nr. 52, Nr. 51, Nr. 50
.... and then you've 49 left
and 49 "is 50" (Greek interpretation)
then you tell these 49 are
"three other sons were born of Earth and Heaven, great and doughty beyond telling, Cottus and Briareos and
Gyes, presumptuous children. From their shoulders sprang an
hundred arms, not to be approached, and each had fifty heads upon his shoulders on their strong limbs, and irresistible was the
stubborn strength that was in their great forms. For of all the
children that were born of Earth and Heaven, these were the most terrible, and they were hated by their own father from the first."
And their number is 3, cause the whole consideration jumps out of the trigram-definition of heaven.
For the observation of the mathematical scheme it's not very important, if you tell a specific row of action or not, it's somehow unnecessary, but the creative poet can do something about it. So Hesiod did choose this way.
In the question of the age of the Titans Hesiod tells this story:
"But
afterwards she (Gaia) lay with Heaven (Uranos) and bare deep-swirling Oceanus,
Coeus and Crius and Hyperion and Iapetus, Theia and Rhea, Themis
and Mnemosyne and gold-crowned Phoebe and lovely Tethys. After
them was born Cronos the wily, youngest and most terrible of her
children, and he hated his lusty sire."
which in Hesiod's idea gives this small riddle (compare the line of the names above):
male 64 (or 1): Okeanos
male 63 (or 2): Koios
male 62 (or 3): Krios
male 61 (or 4): Hyperion
male 60 (or 5): Iapetos
female 59 (or 6): Theia
female 58 (or 7): Rhea
female 57 (or 8): Themis
female 56 (or 9): Mnemosyne
female 55 (or 10): Phoibe
female 54 (or 11): Tethys
male 53 (or 12): Kronos
Well, one might conclude, that this a forgery of later time, the whole thing is a little unsystematical, so it seems possible, but these poets loved their riddles and so our opinion is, that it is intention ... of the poet.
The in later mythology often used order was organized this way:
6. Kronos - Rhea
5. Hyperion - Theia
4. Krios # Themis
3. Iapetos # Mnemosyne
2. Koios - Phoibe
1. Okeanos - Tethys
The "order by age" suggested by Hesiod combined with the "mathematical rule", that older sons has to marry younger daughters would give this result:
6. Kronos - Theia
5. Iapetos - Rhea
4. Hyperion - Themis
3. Krios - Mnemosyne
2. Koios - Phoibe
1. Okeanos - Tethys
Both rows contain only one "mistake" and the whole concept "men are older than women" a third one. Let's speculate about the reasons:
* 1st "mistake": Greek mythology is "originally" a matriarchalic concept. Gaia (earth) is mother to the male Uranos (heaven) and Pontos (sea).
So the daughter-Titans should be older than the son-Titans. Probably they were so "originally". But with Okeanos as the oldest the concept is changed. As a rememberance to the older state Kronos is still the youngest.
* 2nd "mistake": Iapetos is in Hesiod's list "high" and in the really relevant list "degraded"" (on position 3 instead of position 5)
Why? Iapetos was by semitic mythology a father of mankind as one of the 3 sons of Noah, then known as Japhed to the biblical texts. Greek mythology integrated this semitic approach to explain the world, but - as usual - they perrceived themselves as having the better concept of th gods, they had to degrade this foreign import. In the mythology-story this did lead to a specific detail in the fight of the Titans, in which Japetos was thrown in the Tartaros. In the system this means, that Iapetos was degraded from position 5 to position 3, as a result the figures Krios and Hyperion were raised a little bit.
* 3rd "mistake": Theia ("light") is above Rhea.
The Greek Olympic cult was not a sun-religion, but the Greek knew sun-religions and probably in their "high time" they felt superior to the other interpretations. In their concept "Theia" was degraded, Rhea, mother to the Olympian sextett, was raised.
---------
One other detail: Hesiod gives the number of the Harpiyen as 2 and only mentions Iris and not Arke. So he reaches as grand-children from Pontos/Gaia without Eurybia's children only 61 - not 64. ...
.... but with Eurybia's children he had also 64 ... The Greek poets not always had the same opinion ..
but I think, one can rely on the idea, that they meant "64" and not 61.Huck (based on earlier considerations of autorbis)
