Bernice
Thankyou Kwaw for posting that. And, my apologies for not naming you.
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I've just been browsing some very interesting posts re. the possible (marseille) suit attributes from Ayumi, and links from Fulgour, in this thread (beginning with Fulgours post & links). Both historical sources, Humours etc. and scientific understandings of the 'elements' are discussed:
http://www.tarotforum.net/showpost.php?p=979741&postcount=2
Dispite an abiding interest in all possible associations for the Suits, I find that the more I read & learn of the various elemental approaches and arrangments, the more I become inclined to jettison the whole business of Suit-Elemental correlations. It seems that the four suit emblems can express or manifest aspects of the all Elements.
If we must have elemental correlations (and who said we should in the first place....), why not assign them to the numerals, the individual pip cards, and use some other vehicle for the Suits? What about a four-fold structure like this (snaffled & modified from the chinese. Apologies.):
1) Ascending, growing
2) Expanding, radiating
3) Contracting, condensing
4) Descending, flowing
So that if for instance, Coins were (2), Expanding, radiating, and (again, for instance) the 4 was aligned with Water, with the usual modern idea of 'feelings' etc. We would have a 4 of Coins as an infectiously happy, joyful card ("Smile & the world smiles with you" ?). You could go further and decide that Water doesn't radiate - unless it's phosphorus - and derive some other meaning for such a combination.
This is not necessarily the associations I would make for the suits/numbers, just a speculative example. Just wondering if I'm alone in wanting to break free of the Elemental 'mould'.
Bee
..
I've just been browsing some very interesting posts re. the possible (marseille) suit attributes from Ayumi, and links from Fulgour, in this thread (beginning with Fulgours post & links). Both historical sources, Humours etc. and scientific understandings of the 'elements' are discussed:
http://www.tarotforum.net/showpost.php?p=979741&postcount=2
Dispite an abiding interest in all possible associations for the Suits, I find that the more I read & learn of the various elemental approaches and arrangments, the more I become inclined to jettison the whole business of Suit-Elemental correlations. It seems that the four suit emblems can express or manifest aspects of the all Elements.
If we must have elemental correlations (and who said we should in the first place....), why not assign them to the numerals, the individual pip cards, and use some other vehicle for the Suits? What about a four-fold structure like this (snaffled & modified from the chinese. Apologies.):
1) Ascending, growing
2) Expanding, radiating
3) Contracting, condensing
4) Descending, flowing
So that if for instance, Coins were (2), Expanding, radiating, and (again, for instance) the 4 was aligned with Water, with the usual modern idea of 'feelings' etc. We would have a 4 of Coins as an infectiously happy, joyful card ("Smile & the world smiles with you" ?). You could go further and decide that Water doesn't radiate - unless it's phosphorus - and derive some other meaning for such a combination.
This is not necessarily the associations I would make for the suits/numbers, just a speculative example. Just wondering if I'm alone in wanting to break free of the Elemental 'mould'.
Bee