What is the exact difference between an opposition and a square

Minderwiz

I was using a more modern convention that seems common here in the U.S. The slower moving planet is seen as the base or root or reference planet. The faster moving planet is the one making the aspect. So, in my examples, Jupiter is the slower planet of the two, and Mars would be the one making an opening square (90 degrees ahead in zodiac position), the opposition, or the closing square (270 degrees ahead in the zodiac). This seems based on phase relationships, and may also be the convention advocated by others. However, many years ago I disposed of some 350 astrology books (I didn't have the room for them), and now I have no references for these details. Dave

The phase relationship is still there in the Hellenistic/Early Medieval. In the example I gave, when Mars in the dominant position it is a closing square in your terminology and making its way to the conjunction and when Jupiter is dominant it is an opening square in your terminology, Mars having separated from the conjunction. In the case of the Dominant square, Mars is looking forward to Jupiter, as both planets usual motion is through the signs. Jupiter has to turn round and look backwards at Mars coming up behind. As any fighter pilot knows, Mars on the tail of Jupiter is in the stronger position.

Remember that sometime around the millennium, the direction of dominance seems to have reversed. There doesn't seem to have been any rationale for this, so it was probably a copying or translation error.

It is the latter (probably wrong but certainly without a rationale) interpretation which was !ost likely transmitted through Lilly and other late tradition Astrologers (who had no conception of fighter pilots) to the modern day.
 

Chanah

Traditionally, then. Let's put Mars in Aquarius in 3, and the moon in Taurus in 6. That's a nasty square, because Mars is detrimented in Taurus. And the two planets aren't really friendly to start with. Moon is applying. Applying and separating may be easier to remember than opening and closing.

What happens? You could be a writer (3rd house, and moon is entangled with a lot of literature), whose work is constantly interrupted (Mars) by the square. 6th house is ill-health, that would be the problem.

So many ways to look at these things. Chances are that the dominant, or overcoming one of the planets in the square is interfering with what the other one is trying to do.
 

Minderwiz

Traditionally, then. Let's put Mars in Aquarius in 3, and the moon in Taurus in 6. That's a nasty square, because Mars is detrimented in Taurus. And the two planets aren't really friendly to start with. Moon is applying. Applying and separating may be easier to remember than opening and closing.

What happens? You could be a writer (3rd house, and moon is entangled with a lot of literature), whose work is constantly interrupted (Mars) by the square. 6th house is ill-health, that would be the problem.

So many ways to look at these things. Chances are that the dominant, or overcoming one of the planets in the square is interfering with what the other one is trying to do.

I'm a bit confused, If the Moon is in Taurus it's separating from Mars in Aquarius, not applying s you explicitly say. Whilst Mars is squaring it's Detrimen,t Taurus, things aren't so bad because the Moon is receiving Mars into its exaltation... I think you inadvertently reversed the signs at some point and swapped Mars to Taurus and the sixth because you talk about Moon and literature and Mars and I'll health.

On your initial positions with Mars in Aquarius, Mars is in the dominant position if you exchange signs the the Moon is dominant but clearly affected by Mars. If it's a day chart, Mars would be the out of sect malefic. In a night chart Mars would be more neutral and the Moon is probably the Sect light. It's only probable because the Moon has set (whether third or sixth) and we don't know where the Sun is.
 

Chanah

Put Mars at, say, 14 Aquarius. Put the moon at, say, 12 Taurus. Moon is still applying, but Mars is overcoming.

Or are we mixing up terms here?
 

Minderwiz

Put Mars at, say, 14 Aquarius. Put the moon at, say, 12 Taurus. Moon is still applying, but Mars is overcoming.

Or are we mixing up terms here?

You didn't give degrees in your original post and I might have been better to have focussed on that point. Mars at 12 Aquarius and Moon at 14 Taurus also satisfies your example but isn't an applying square, it's a separating one and is at least equally as likely.

You did implicitly transpose the houses in the later part of your example and it was that which led me to overlook the lack of specific degrees.

I think it behoves me in my confusion to indicate why I saw the example as separating, so my apologies for failing to be specific but you have to recognise too that your example didn't confirm your assertion and is a bit misleading with the planets changing houses (and signs) half way through lol
 

Chanah

It's terminology, then. Okay, sorry for my part in the confusion.

What I was trying to show what happens when you have applying, overcoming, and pushing management all involved. I don't like the term pushing (management, virtue, whatever) because it's been so tortured in explanations.

We've got an applying square. Moon pushes (ow) some of its business onto that overcoming Mars to handle because of that. But Mars is in rough shape, it doesn't like the moon, and doesn't like Taurus, and squares are generally nasty.

So Mars takes the moon's affairs and screws them up in one way or another depending on house positions.