Do you feel the authors of guidebooks get too much credit?

nisaba said:

What if the deck is the whole idea of the person who wrote the book, but they just didn't have the artistic skills to make the cards they envisioned look right, so they got someone more skilled than they were, to make their visions come out of their heads and get onto the paper by telling them what they wanted, looking at rough sketches, and asking for changes?

I think this happens fairly often in collaborative decks - I know of at least a couple where the artist was employed just as a set of skills to make the author's vision come about.

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Exactly. There are a few decks painted by people who do know their tarot, but who I SO wish had hired someone who could actually paint to get their vision across.

There are others where the person who had the idea (the "conceptor", perhaps ?) instructed the artist. Barbara Moore who had the concepts for both the Pagan Cats and the Steampunk is an example of someone who put in a HUGE amount of work and who had someone else actually do the art. She said it was like seeing her words come to life. Her blog did at one time have a long description of how the Pagan Cats was created; I don't know if it is still there.

May I also cite Frieda Harris, who did Crowley's art (and thank goodness she did; have you SEEN his own attempts ??? they are truly dreadful) and Pamela Coleman Smith, who did the artwork for Waite. Do you feel cheated using those decks too ?

For me this is totally not an issue.

danielnogo said:

I completely agree with you, but it doesnt seem to happen often, especially when the cards come with a lengthy book and not just a LWB, the authors name is usually in big letters and the artist, if mentioned at all on the box, is in much smaller writing, bothers me a little being an artist.

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If you will notice: The Morgan-Greer deck was drawn by Greer - not Morgan. However, Morgan financed it so if he wanted his name first his name was going first - Bill Greer be damned! Greer was paid for his work - gets nothing in royalty for every 'Morgan' deck sold.

Returning to your original question: "Do you feel the authors of the guidebooks get too much credit?" - I would have to ask why you seem to have such a problem with this. Chances are any deck that has it's own book will cause the buyer to purchase both deck & book; if the big-name/highly recognizable book author is more of an attraction to the buying public than an unknown (for the moment) artist - I think the Law Of Economics says 'use the name that will bring in the sale.'

Therefore, if Stephen King decides to write a Tarot book to go with my deck (which he absolutely adores!) , it will always be known as and sold as 'The Stephen King Tarot, with illustrations by Tarotbear', NOT 'The Tarotbear Tarot with a book by that Gothic Horror guy, Whatzhisname.'

tarotbear said:

Therefore, if Stephen King decides to write a Tarot book to go with my deck (which he absolutely adores!) , it will always be known as and sold as 'The Stephen King Tarot, with illustrations by Tarotbear', NOT 'The Tarotbear Tarot with a book by that Gothic Horror guy, Whatzhisname.'

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<shakes head> Why did you not tell me?

Sadly, I already have the deck.

All we have to do now is chain Stephen to a bed and torture him for a bit to make him write a book to your deck. Let me know when it's printed and I'll buy a copy. I also have a cordless drill and a fascinating array of drill-bits, if you're going to be needing them in the meantime.

Its not that it bothers me to the point of not buying decks or anything like that, I was just curious if anyone felt the same way.

tarotbear said:

You bought the deck: The deck was created by an artist - The artist gets the credit. The author of the LWB is not the star of the show: the Art is. You bought the deck for the Art, not the literature.

Stephen Sondheim and James Lapine wrote several musicals together - Steve the music and lyrics, James the book. However, you will find them listed as "Stephen Sondheim's musical 'Sunday in the Park with George'."

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PERFECTLY said! I buy the decks for the art. I cannot remember if I ever read an entire book.

I agree with the initial post, I also think the artists should get bigger visibility, at least equal if more is not possible, as the writers.

tarotbear said:

You bought the deck: The deck was created by an artist - The artist gets the credit. The author of the LWB is not the star of the show: the Art is. You bought the deck for the Art, not the literature.

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In many cases, the deck was created by both an artist and an author.

When I buy a deck that deviates from Rider Waite, I am buying the entire system depicted in that deck, not just the art.

There are many decks where the author is the star of the show. We don't have to look any further than Crowley, who didn't do the art, but the entire concept was his and thus the deck is known as the Crowley deck.

I have plenty of respect for artists. I understand that their contributions are great. What I fail to understand is why some artists don't seem to be able to accord that same respect to authors.

BrownBear said:

I have plenty of respect for artists. I understand that their contributions are great. What I fail to understand is why some artists don't seem to be able to accord that same respect to authors.

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Possibly for the same reason that so many 'great' artists never sold a painting in their lifetimes - which now fetch millions of dollars - and died obscure in poverty?

How many authors never sold a book until after they were dead?

BrownBear said:

In many cases, the deck was created by both an artist and an author.

When I buy a deck that deviates from Rider Waite, I am buying the entire system depicted in that deck, not just the art.

There are many decks where the author is the star of the show. We don't have to look any further than Crowley, who didn't do the art, but the entire concept was his and thus the deck is known as the Crowley deck.

I have plenty of respect for artists. I understand that their contributions are great. What I fail to understand is why some artists don't seem to be able to accord that same respect to authors.

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The crowley deck is somewhat of an exception, it is completely unique among tarot decks with its symbology, and actually frieda harris had alot of say in the deck, and was put through the golden dawn if I'm not mistaken. Plus everyone knows about frieda harris she constantly gets credited for her work, if every instance was like the crowley deck I wouldnt be complaining. Same as in the waite smith deck, yes it is known as the rider waite, bit it is also known as the waite smith, almost everyone knows who did the art for those two decks. With alot of oracles nowadays, its not like theres THAT much different about most of them, its a picture with a keyword or phrase on it and not very much overt symbology from what I've seen. You almost dont even need the book for most oracle decks it's so obvious what the cards are about, the artist should be given at least equal billing.

danielnogo said:

You almost dont even need the book for most oracle decks it's so obvious what the cards are about, the artist should be given at least equal billing.

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Since this is the best of all possible worlds, it follows that everything that happens in it happens for the best ...

H.P. Lovecraft didn't become a horror icon until after his death. Still, I agree that the book authors are usually credited way too much over the artist.

To play the devil's advocate, I both design graphics and write on the side. Sorry to say, but if I'm designing from scratch, designs take way longer to complete, no matter how much research I do during the design process to speed it up. Writing up documentation explaining the design after it's all said and done doesn't take much effort at all. Same goes for critiquing other designers, even if I can tell they spent hours and hours on the design.

Lucy Cavendish is actually one of the authors I was thinking of when I was reading replies to this post. I was thinking about buying the Mermaid Oracle w/Selina Fenech as the artist, but the deck never even hit my cart. Mermaids as "Loving, adventurous, kind, and daring" = lol. Maybe if you were using Disney as a reference. (Though to be fair, that issue could also be with Selina's depiction of mermaids, but it would be nice if she had been given more of a voice in the companion book using her own artwork.)