I Le Bateleur

Now that's the ticket Aoifie!
Anne Boleyn had an extra pinkie did she? Just like the old devil himself? and what a useful tool that would be for a bateleur in sleight-of-hand tricks.

Re: the table leg, I must admit, I was not too serious about trying to find the missing table leg, I rather like the tripod theory.

Now perhaps you would like to explain if there should be some significance to that lone flame shaped bush standing right in the middle of the pathway?

I presume the single 'flame' you are referring to is the one which grows between between his legs...

Again, here I will merely exegete the image, not attempt any historical reasons for its being. In another thread, I quoted Goethe on the Ürplant... it was precisely because of reflections on this card that I had this aspect of Goethe's work so easily at hand. To my mind at least, here is the Ürpflanze - the archetypal plant - which metamorphosises to its various parts. This is also so apt for the Magician/Bateleur, who transforms (ie, changes the forms of) the various illusory presentations to his audience.

As deeper aspect of the Magician, the transformations are far from illusory, but rather a true metamorphosis, a true transformation, from the caterpillar to the butterfly.

The shape of the leaf/tree/plant bud being flame-like has also been noted by others - though I cannot think of whom at the moment - it is, to be sure, an apt representation of the element required in the process of transformation.

How wonderful to have your input in these threads... and now, we begin the journey anew. The Historical aspects of the cards have had an input, now for their iconographic analogical exegesis (Ophiel would indeed be pleased - even if we disagreed on some aspects!). I hope others join or re-join discussions on these important considerations...

Thank-you again feuerprincess...

now I succomb to thoughts on methodology

Right... as a dutiful student of the structuralist school, (I think)(semiology?) I was trained to look first hard and long at the text, then at the historical context.

But you can tell me, Jean-Michel, if an historical approach is truly separable from considerations of iconography.

...And while pondering the relationship between iconography and history, I have a few questions. (Did you really think I was going to take a nap?)

OKAY: here goes:
(pondering the Camoin)

• Of what earthly use is a curly knife? (if that is a curly knife) or if it is not a curly knife, what on earth is it?
  
• would anyone care to explain the 8 golden balls imbricated in the gentleman's flaxen hair? Perhaps these are 8 of 12? he holds a ninth in his right hand, the tenth lies on the table? and further two adorn his shoes? Does this have something to do with planets and the sun? And if it does have something to do with planets, might this not poke a few holes in our as view of him as pitiable saltimbanque, and restore him to an honorable mage's place in the heavens?
  
• Should I not be surprised to see three dice, rather than two? Three is a fitting number, of course, for objects emblematic of the randomness of fate: can we say- the three fates?.
  Or will you say, in them thar days, one didn't merely shake the dice, one juggled them?
  
• Are we to make something of his two sleeves being quite mismatched? His right sleeve has yellow ruffles going down, a patch of blue, a line, then green ruffles going down; while the left sleeve has a patch of yellow with no ruffles, blue ruffles going down (waves of water?), and a long patch of green without ruffle. His right sleeve has two cords of red around the wrist, and his left sleeve has only one.
  
• And what about the two patches of red he is standing in? (puddles of blood?)
  

significance of details, colours?

I acknowledge, it could be a painful load of work to ponder all of these mysteries, and come up with interpretations, and one might wonder, to what end? Especially if the tarot were simply intended as a "jeu". But it seems to me that as far as Jorodowski and Camoin are concerned, each detail is significant, which is why they have gone to such pains to recreate what they imagine to be the UR-marseille.

Jorodowski writes: "The fact that many copies of the Tarot of Marseilles were printed by different printers at different times with such similarity proves the existence of a common original pattern"

Regarding variants and deviations from the original pattern, he says it is "important not to imbue [them] with an esoteric value [they do] not have".

But he says, there are features identical in all, which must have been copied from "a now missing, more ancient Tarot" (and those features, and colors would then be the true ones, and carry the true esoteric meaning!)

He believes that from the work they have done, on computer with superposing and comparing different versions, that they have been able to give the colors "a precision never attained before" (and therefore make them worthy of interpretation)

Whether or not you will go along with the idea that they have restored legitmacy of meaning to the colors and features of the cards by their "restoration", it does tickle the mind to ponder the possibilities, n'est-ce pas????

As far as the importance of the colors: Jorodowski writes

In the RESTORED TAROT OF MARSEILLES one finds ten colors, each one bearing multiple meanings (to which one must add tiny spots of purple):
-WHITE
-LIGHT BLUE
-DARK BLUE
-LIGHT YELLOW
-DARK YELLOW
-- FLESH
-LIGHT GREEN
-DARK GREEN
-RED
-BLACK

Four of these colors are not divided into "light" or "dark. These are White, Black, and Red, the three colors of Alchemical Work, and the color Flesh, realm of the human being where the alchemical mutation operates. .."

Click to expand...

To attempt to make any replies to this post will only add to the vast gaps which need to, eventually, be properly completed...

I myself am no semiologist (though I have read de Saussure) nor its derivative structuralist (à la Levi-Strauss or Foucault (?) which I must admit to really enjoying reading). Thus, though one must, I suppose, well look at the text in order to unravel its historical context, and also look at the historical context in order to unravel its inherent text, one may also exegete through sensing into and permitting the image's own unveiling (of the PaRDeS previously referred to, this is equivalent to the S[od] part).

Now let's get to the questions:

• A curly knife is also a paring knife - though I own an old (1800s) foldable knife, too large for that purpose, whose blade (and Deer hilt) are curved.
  
  Apart from this, if one makes quite a small image, wouldn't a curved blade be more easily recognised as a blade than a straight one (try drawing one upon a table, and see!)?
  
  But what of the blade? Again, it seems to me that this is an instrument which, more than any other of the tools depicted, shows the way in which humankind has been able to trully penetrate the depths of the earth and transformed its elements (I strongly suggest that one sees the incredible transformation which occurs of what appears to be a clump of rock to a blade in the hands of a master blacksmith!)
  
• The little balls upon his self I will leave for maybe another. These are inconsistent upon various renditions, and would only make things up in order to answer at this stage - though they are certainly worthy of deeper reflection.
  
  As to the 'ball' in his right hand (the lower hand), it is, in my personal view, significant that it appears somewhat ovoid. This is even more significant if one considers his other hand and its content, for the transformation/transmutation necessitates an inner fecundity which gives the appearance of the Bateleur's skills, whereby, in reality, he 'merely' combines the appropriate resources for the transformation to be birthed.
  
• The dice - on some decks - each showing faces which add to 21 (7 + 7 + 7), and its importance to the Major Arcana. The three fates - wonderful consideration I had not made!
  
  Again, some decks have two. That there are dice upon the table also indicates, apart from the gambling element, the human skill of number manipulation. Here then, and though three seem more apt, whether there be one or more is sufficient to indicate this developed skill of knowledge.
  
• As for the colours, I agree with what is said on the importance of colour (and how technology may have reduced its number in certain woodcuts), as claimed by Camoin and Jorodowski. However, this is an area which even they deviate from the Conver in certain cases based, it seems to me, simply because of the long influence of Marteau on their creative reflection.
  
  The colouring of the Conver is quite something - but different to the Marteau, to the Camoin, and to the Hadar. At least the other details can be pretty closely agreed on across Marseilles decks, despite the differences. Personally, I still prefer the Conver colouring, even though I am highly thankful to the Camoin for making it easier to even determine the former's colour.

But please, let's have differing views to add to these reflections!

Thanks for the second of your posts, Paula - I must have started to begin my previous reply just at the time you posted, and had missed it...

Though Camoin & Jorodowski may have compared various early decks, they did not merely reproduce difficult to see details, for, as an example, their Tower deviates from the (image) tradition (though not from an oral one) - as I mention in my review.

Still, their colour considerations are a breath of fresh air: to have ten, rather than the earlier few, seems to give the deck a heightened dimension more reminiscent of mediaeval iconography.

jmd said:

... though one must, I suppose, well look at the text in order to unravel its historical context, and also look at the historical context in order to unravel its inherent text, one may also exegete through sensing into and permitting the image's own unveiling (of the PaRDeS previously referred to, this is equivalent to the S[od] part).

Click to expand...

The Great Firemaiden stands perplexed, scratching her flames. Do I dare ? she ponders... will it seem I am but hot air? Is it hanging? Or live burial, the punisment for revealing secrets...

Yes, comes the answer, at last, we will ask him to decrypt his code, and if the Masons come to bury him alive, we will pull him out:

So, Great Mage what does PaRDeS mean again? and S[od]? and why do the letters go up and down?

jmd said:

A curly knife is also a paring knife - though I own an old (1800s) foldable knife, too large for that purpose, whose blade (and Deer hilt) are curved.

Apart from this, if one makes quite a small image, wouldn't a curved blade be more easily recognised as a blade than a straight one (try drawing one upon a table, and see!)?

Click to expand...

I actually see TWO knives, one which is curved, and one which is curled up so completely it is practically biting its own tail. I really can't imagine how such a thing could be useful!

Originally posted by jmd
But what of the blade? Again, it seems to me that this is an instrument which, more than any other of the tools depicted, shows the way in which humankind has been able to trully penetrate the depths of the earth and transformed its elements (I strongly suggest that one sees the incredible transformation which occurs of what appears to be a clump of rock to a blade in the hands of a master blacksmith!)

Click to expand...

Now this is a fantastic thought! It reminds me of the myth of Hephaestos, god of fire, patron of blacksmiths. Blacksmiths, and indeed all artisans using fire must have seemed all powerful sorcerers! Incredible transformation indeed, never mind turning people into toads. And so the Blacksmith God Hephaestos (as plagiarized from this article by Ron Leadbetter, )

...manufactured wonderful articles from various materials, primarily from metal. With help from the Cyclopes, who were his workmen and assistants, he fashioned the thunderbolts for Zeus and his sceptre. He made weapons and armour for the other gods and heroes. For Athena, he made her shield or aegis and for the god of love, Eros, he made the arrows. The wonderful chariot which the sun god Helios rode across the sky was made by Hephaestus and in some versions it was a golden cup or goblet.

Click to expand...

Wonderful highlights of these suit elements there, firemaiden!

I had earlier mentioned Hephaestus (on page 2) in connection with the anvil on XV the Devil... numerous aspects of these myths and sagas may play in numerous images - thank you for this important highlight!

As to PaRDeS, the letters 'merely' go 'up and down' because the vowels are added to the Hebrew notariqon which, as a word, means 'orchid', but which has, since late mediaeval times, been connected to the Earthly garden of Eden and hence, Paradise.

Apart from Gorshem Scholem and Israel Regardie (the former discussing traditional Kabbalah and the latter its Golden Dawn variant), this site has an excellent couple of papers on the notion... enjoy, they are worth reading.

Thank you Jean-Michel, I read all of the links with great interest.
Now I have another question about the face on the belly and the eyes on the knees. In addition to the iconographically historical reasons for these faces, (perhaps this belongs in a different thread and forum) but what about the correspondances between those eyes and energy centers?