Reversals

Barleywine said:

I agree in essence with Zephyros' observations about "knowing Kabbalah." I think it's enriching to master the technique of reading reversals before deciding to reject them out-of-hand. Reversed cards are more cautionary or advisory than prescriptive; I consider them a kind of "signpost" that can point down different byways in the reading that may otherwise remain unexplored. They can also save time in getting to the less obvious meanings that I agree are already encoded in the cards when upright.

For example, we start out saying "The Sun is wonderful, but wait, there may be something less benevolent about certain aspects of it. Hmm, how does that fit into the context?" With reversal, we can cut right to "There may be a cloud across the face of the Sun, something may be "hidden in plain sight." For me, it becomes a matter of efficiency.

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Yes, this is what I now believe. With a reversal, it's easier to cut right through and understand whether there's a warning. Also, I agree about understanding reversals *before* deciding not to use them. You should have a sense of the rules *first.* For me, not reading them was an excuse--a rationalization for why I didn't have to study something that seemed difficult.

Similarly, I have an English lit degree and do a lot of writing. To be a great writer, you have to understand grammar before deciding when to reject the rules.

But I get it. Not everyone will agree.

Not claiming I'm a great writer, but using a comparison that saying that you don't have to understand the rules can be an excuse that impairs the learning process.

I use to read tarot upright when first started working with them... now reversals are a must have. If I don't read reversals, I only get half the story. Reversals have a certain wow factor; it makes everything much more clear.

jnett said:

I use to read tarot upright when first started working with them... now reversals are a must have. If I don't read reversals, I only get half the story. Reversals have a certain wow factor; it makes everything much more clear.

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The "wow factor" is a good way to put it. I forgot that one way I used to characterize reversals was "turning over rocks to see what crawls out from underneath." It seems more like "getting your hands dirty" than simply taking a cerebral approach to examining the possibilities.

Zephyros said:

I don't use reversals, I opt instead for esoteric symbolism, Kabbalah and astrology to give the cards shades of meaning. I would be wary in making flat-out statements as to what an advanced reader actually is because different people are advanced in different things.

There used to be a time when I thought an advanced reader must know Kabbalah. I still think it is very enriching to learn and I highly recommend it, but I no longer think it is a "must."

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Interesting thoughts about the Kabbalah. I haven't invested a lot of time in learning that system. I think my thoughts here would run in the same direction. It's not necessary to read reversals or understand all of the esoteric correspondences, but it seems like if you want to master a craft, you would want to at least learn everything before deciding to reject it in your personal practice.

You're right about making generalizations about advanced readers. This might be my truth, but lot's of great readers read intuitively without necessarily getting into the symbolism much at all. That said, as a student of tarot--someone who wants to really master the craft--it's important to me to be careful about making excuses for why I don't want to study something. For me, this was a rationalization that inhibited my readings, but other people might be less inhibited. Maybe what I should say instead is that in order *for me* to master the art of tarot, it's important to feel comfortable with reversals, correspondences, etc.

feminine_mystique said:

I used to only read upright but things and situations thst were present weren't entirely coming out the right way. It was just off.

Once I started reading reversals it was like whoa!! Totally different dynamics and I could really get into the nitty gritty of the situation and what was relaly happening. Like the uprights were only the superficial of what was happening but the reversed cards were like the detail and just gave me so much to work with.

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Yes, this was exactly my experience. Reversals can still be messy because they can represent things that are hidden or blocked, which can be a big difference in interpretation, but it's still so much more clear than trying to figure out which meaning to apply from the upright interpretation. The upright interpretations include shades of the reversed meaning, but instead of *knowing* which shade is applicable, we tend to read the upright meaning. For example, the Death card is generally viewed as a positive card--the death of one thing is necessary for rebirth, etc. But what does a *reversed* Death card mean? NOT Death? This is a wildly different interpretation that could mean stagnation or holding on to things that would be better discarded.

Ruby Jewel said:

For instance, when the Tower comes out Rx, does that mean you put it back together? or it hasn't fallen yet? That is what I mean by arbitrary...all of a sudden the decision is in my hands rather than in a simple intuitive response to the cards and the layout of the cards. If I am at a loss, a clarifier will explain it.

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Part of what spurred me to post this thread had to do with a reversed Tower. It was intended to represent what someone is looking for in a relationship, but the querent's response was outright rejection to the card. They are looking for stability in a relationship--not the Tower. Well, in fact, isn't that an explanation for the reversed Tower? They *don't* want the Tower. They want the opposite. So why then is it posed as a negative? It turned out to be a younger person who had fixated on an older man--someone she views as a symbol of stability. Crucially, this is not the same thing as being in a healthy frame of mind to *achieve* stability. Instead, it might indicate seeking something for the wrong reasons, NOT breaking down old structures and therefore repeating old patterns, etc.

Sztar said:

I hear you, but I think the reversal helps clarify. Ordinarily, most cards carry both a positive and negative meaning. The Fool, for example, is a great card. You need to watch out not to fall over the cliff, but it's about striking out into the unknown. Reversed it carries a real warning: be careful, pay attention. Without the reading the reversal, it's more difficult to know the emphasis. To me, it seems more arbitrary.

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I think it is very easy to read our own fears into reversals....when I see a reversal it sort of pushes the energy back inside me to my own experiences in an effort to interpret it. As a person who chooses not to look back to what I see as a "dead" past, I find that reversals have a way of killing the optimism in a reading. As a Buddhist trainee, I concentrate on living "in this very moment" with the realization that it is the only reality. The cards speak to us in this very moment. I believe they operate outside time...and, therefore, do not predict..... although the energies of past and future are always omnipresent. Also, the whole tamale in Buddhist lore is "pay attention"... pay attention to this very moment. In that focused attention you become aware of many things...such as an impending "warning." But that warning should not cause you to abort this experiment of life....for me, the Fool is about living this life...taking a chance. The lesson of the Fool is simply this: pay attention. And it doesn't need to be Rx to give me this warning....you can see it already in his face, upright.

Sztar said:

Part of what spurred me to post this thread had to do with a reversed Tower. It was intended to represent what someone is looking for in a relationship, but the querent's response was outright rejection to the card. They are looking for stability in a relationship--not the Tower. Well, in fact, isn't that an explanation for the reversed Tower? They *don't* want the Tower. They want the opposite. So why then is it posed as a negative? It turned out to be a younger person who had fixated on an older man--someone she views as a symbol of stability. Crucially, this is not the same thing as being in a healthy frame of mind to *achieve* stability. Instead, it might indicate seeking something for the wrong reasons, NOT breaking down old structures and therefore repeating old patterns, etc.

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I apologize Sztar, but my brain refuses to follow this line of analytical thinking....it is really hard for me to comprehend what you are saying here....but I will give it a go anyway. Are you saying the querent was looking for a positive card that represented stability in a relationship and got the Tower, which she rejected because it represented instability? And then you are using the fact that it was Rx to explain her rejection...instead of an answer to the question posed? This is a very good example of what I mean by reversals resulting in arbitrary interpretations. The reading has nothing to do with the client's desire other than to say, "here is the result of your desire." My suggestion would be to simplify this by turning the Tower upright and looking at it from that perspective. This would remove the possibility of speculative interpretations. The answer would be obvious. Speculative thinking is circular. It goes nowhere.

Barleywine said:

I agree in essence with Zephyros' observations about "knowing Kabbalah." I think it's enriching to master the technique of reading reversals before deciding to reject them out-of-hand. Reversed cards are more cautionary or advisory than prescriptive; I consider them a kind of "signpost" that can point down different byways in the reading that may otherwise remain unexplored. They can also save time in getting to the less obvious meanings that I agree are already encoded in the cards when upright.

For example, we start out saying "The Sun is wonderful, but wait, there may be something less benevolent about certain aspects of it. Hmm, how does that fit into the context?" With reversal, we can cut right to "There may be a cloud across the face of the Sun, something may be "hidden in plain sight." For me, it becomes a matter of efficiency.

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I think the Sun card is amazing because of the fact that it comes right after the Moon card, which is the last card of transformation in the Papus spread. Of course, looking at it Rx ensures that we do not become a Polyanna ..... but it takes a Polyanna to be one.