Camoin/Jodorowsky Marseilles Deck

trademark tag?

I looked at a copy of the deck on Playingcards.com and noticed that there is what looks like a trademark tag on the bottom-left of each card. Is there indeed a TM on *each* card?

Full deck, there's "(c) JODO-CAMOIN" in little letters on the bottom left hand corner of each of the 78 cards.

(By the way, that's a copyright identification, rather than trademark identification.)

The bright side is that it tells us which side of a pip card is the top and which side is down, according to the confraternity of master cardmakers.

The trademarks/copyright on each card is also found on various other Marseille decks, specifically the Grimaud.

With regards to the uprightness of the card judged by the copyright, however, there is inconsistency even within the various printings of the Grimaud across time, so that a version I have printed in the 1960s has the marks on a different corner of some of the pips to the otherwise same deck (save it is also on thinner cardboard) printed more recently.

To my mind, then, and though it may be used to assist in uprightness if one agrees with the orientations used, it may also be applied without the careful thinking it deserves.

...but to have something to aid the person who wishes for clear and definite directions... (an expression, by the way)

PS I write the above, by the way, precisely because I was for many years under the illusion that there was one accepted view of uprightness with regards the Marseille pips, whether determined by the imprint of the National Library (BN) stamp on very early decks, or by the copyright notice.

It is both refreshing and liberating to find that though there are indeed reasons for the uprightness or other of most pip cards (Cups being obvious - but so are many others), they are not, indeed, as fixed as may seem by the copyright imprint.

I am also certain, however, that, as mentioned by Rusty Neon, the Camoin-Jodorowsky deck has its copyright mark to mark how the pips are consistently upright in their personal opinion.

skytwig said:

Sheesh, so there is some kind of secret society about these cards?

Click to expand...

I've been thinking that for some time now. Why else all the reluctance to translate anything to English?

It's a question of supply and demand. If huge hordes of English-language readers were demanding books on the 78 cards cards of the Marseilles deck, books would be translated into English and books would be written in English.

Just got the coolest French-English CD Dictionary...I installed it, then went to some French at AT...Diana posted a long piece by Hadar and then translated it...which is GREAT! For those who have some French...the CD has a feature that allows one to double-click on any word online in French and up "pops" the definition....Good if one can read most of it already...not sure this belongs here...but since translation was mentioned....

jmd, ty about information regarding upright position of pips...I'm so new I never thought about it...but now I do see the CJ copyright....makes sense about the Aces....

terri

just beginning to study C-J deck...these one-card studies are helpful...

Maybe. But I doubt it.

There isn't enough demand for ONE of the books to be translated to English?

Lee wrote:
In the previously mentioned post, I suggested that, despite Camoin's and Jodorowsky's claim to have uncovered the "true" Tarot (or, as it says on the box, "restauration du Tarot Originel"), many of the specific details found on this deck are either a) fanciful interpretations of ambiguous lines found on various decks (in the previous post I flippantly referred to this as "squinting at squiggly lines"), or b) clearly visible on some decks, yet not, contrary to the authors' claim, arrived at by a scientific application of the comparative method to uncover the "original" Marseilles. My suspicion is that some of these features were found on some decks, but their inclusion in the Camoin deck was, I suspect, more likely than not due to whether the feature piqued the authors' interest and/or fit into their previously-worked-out esoteric notions.

Some examples of the particular features I have in mind are the stars on the Chariot's canopy, the tail on one of the Sun children, the snakes at the hem of Temperance, the "ramp" on which the Star maiden kneels, the hind legs of the horses on the Chariot, as well as the doorway on the Tower

Click to expand...

Hi Lee and all,

Many of us apparently relish this deck's beauty but are frustrated that its creators have not published more background about their design choices. It's still probably my favorite Marseilles, mainly because it is more refined than historical reproductions yet still follows the early iconography pretty closely, aside from what seem to be their own additions.

One thing that intrigues me about this deck is that some of its seeming eccentricities have their own correlary in the Hebrew lexicon. These Hebrew words have few synonyms, which is what makes their alphabetic position so surprising. I've not made a final list yet, but the main ones I've noticed are:

- Albino, white-skinned - BHQ (The Papesse in their deck is uniquely white-skinned)

- Egg - BYTzH (the object behind her)

- Lath - PSLA (possibly the object under the maiden's knee; "Lath: 1. any of the thin, narrow strips of wood used in lattices or nailed to two-by-fours," according to Webster's New Wolrld dictionary)

- Strawberry tomato - ShLPCh (the object between the two bottom figures of Il Mondo?)

These matches (which are there in addition to the rest of its iconographic-lexical matches) keep me wondering if C & J referenced a Hebrew dictionary along with their other sources. If so, they have kept that source "mum". Of course, these could just be coincidence--so make of this what you will!

Thanks,
- Mark

Re "white" color in Camoin-Jodo...they say in their article re colors used that the black, red, and white were the alchemical colors....
I asked about this and got a good link:

http://www.soul-guidance.com/houseofthesun/alchemy 2.htm

I just got the deck a few weeks ago...and on their website they discuss the colors...and why they chose them....

terri

Some of the other differences I'm still "out" on, until I learn more...the egg they restored, is viewed by other TdM deck creators as not an "egg."


I do like some of what they said about other cards on their little "slide show" on the website...worth checking out even if you don't read French..just watch the slides in action....my opinion isn't formed yet...I do like the deck, though.