Quick questions about... la Maison Diev/the Tower

jmd

These threads arise out of some of the general questions on the Marseille, and seek to make it easier to sort and find more specific queries...
 

Jewel-ry

Questions that come to mind in my study of this card this week include:

Why do the people in the Hadar (I don't know about other decks) appear to be smiling?

Why do I look at this card and see a windfall? Is it because these people are smiling? Is there any evidence for a meaning based on this?

On the Hadar (although not the Fournier) the bolt of lightning appears to be question mark shaped and comes out of the tower implying an explosion from within, when in many other decks the tower appears to be hit by the bolt. I like to think of this as question mark shaped as it almost prompts the question 'So what are your beliefs founded on?'. Also its only the top of the tower which is blown off, the rest of it appears untouched. This is depicted differently in so many other decks.

Why do the windows in the tower (both Hadar and Fournier) appear off centre? Is there any significance in this?

Thanks for any replies

J :)
 

jmd

I won't answer the first question about the appearance of the seeming smiling face of especially the person nearest the viewer on the Hadar, but rather only touch on some of the other points briefly... for what it's worth, the seeming smile is certainly absent in other renditions.

The 'windfall' of which you speak is, in a number of ways, consistent with some of the meanings sometimes associated with the card, in the sense that there is a 'release' from 'imprisonment' - or felt/ structured constraint. A 'windfall' seems to imply that one is suddenly freed to engage in what one may more freely decide to do.

The flames or bolt's direction, as either from or towards the Tower, is not consistently represented across various Marseille decks. The earlier representations seem to depict more readily flames emerging from the Tower, wheareas some others seem to depict a clearer implied lightning bolt towards the Tower's 'crown'.

In the Hadar, that zig-zagged arrow heading outwards towards the corner 'Sun' is in fact one of the characteristics of the deck which I personally do not like... and find it inconsistant with earlier or more generally accepted interpretative representations. The 'question-mark' forms of the bolt or flames is quite consistent with, for example, the spiralling form of flames as depicted on the Conver. As is the fact that only the top part of the Tower is 'blown off', the rest appearing unaffected by the otherwise apparent cataclysmic event.

As to the 'off-centredness' of the three windows, their representation certainly adds to the sense that here is a circular tower, not a square one. In some ways, this does have some iconographic importance, for it may indicate that this is not a military Tower, but rather, in greater likelyhood, a religious one - though one which is struck down.

I like the way you mention that the curvature of the flames hint at that ever so-important question: 'On what are your beliefs founded?'... beautifully put, and hinting at their abjection.
 

Diana

Jewel-ry: The Maison Dieu / Tower of God (and not "The Tower - there is no "Tower" in the Tarot of Marseille!!!) is probably one of the most misunderstood cards in the Tarot, along with Le Diable / The Devil XV.

Of course these people are smiling. They have just been released from their self-imposed prison! The top of the tower has been opened up for them, which has allowed the pressure inside to be released and therefore they have become free. It's exactly the same technique as with a pressure cooker - you can't open the damn thing unless you've let the pressure out.

Don't forget, there is no lightning bolt here. These are tongues of flames which emanate from the SUN. The sun cannot produce lightning. There is no electricity involved here.

(Re-read the symbolic meaning of the Pentecost. This card relates to it as well.)

This card is one that allows you to regain the power that you have given up, due to fear, to old thought patterns, to bowing down to social conventions, to cowardice, to lack of self-esteem... etc. etc.

As to the windows being slightly off-centre, I have never thought about it and I will now.

As to only the top being blown off, this is quite normal for a Tarot of Marseille. The Maison Dieu is NOT a 12th century premonition of September 11, 2001.

Forget about towers crumbling and destruction and lightning and all sorts of quirks of nature. Think Freedom and Liberation.

The arrow going upwards has also puzzled me, but I bet you my right hand that Hadar has an explanation for this. jmd: You mention the Conver. As you know, Hadar doesn't base his deck on the Conver, but on the Dodal and the Payen. He doesn't believe that the Conver is close enough to the original canon.
 

jmd

Though Kris Hadar may base his depictions more on the Dodal and the Payen, this card, with its curved 'flames', is in fact a little closer to the Conver than to either of the other two... hence part of my reason for mentioning this also fundamentally important version of the Marseille.

With regards to the name of the card, it is indeed the 'Maison Diev', though this does not mean that no Tower is implied, and mediaeval folks - whether nobles of common - would undoubtedly have described what we also see here as 'Toure'. As I have mentioned in the 'main' thread on XVI - La Maison Diev, it may be that what is here depicted is a historically a stylised minaret collapsing as the Holy Family sought refuge in Egyptian temples during their escape from Herod - thereby the image confounding two distinct periods of history in their iconographic depiction.

Personally, I see this card more, therefore, as the 'destruction' of falsely held beliefs and idolatry... though there is some parity in our respective views.

Interestingly, whether the 'flames' emanate from what may be the Sun, or as internal fires from within the Tower is ambiguous enough in early decks - and wonderfully so.
 

smleite

I like the early depiction of this card, in the Viéville deck: a shepherd, his flock, a tree, and what seems to be a bunch of clouds irradiating beams of intense light. A vision. A revelation. A divine manifestation. Moses and the burning bush. No exploding tower, so no sense of catastrophe: just a man before God’s immense power. A power that is not directed against him, but is a signal of God’s immense mercy – he visits, he manifests, he guides. We are not abandoned and alone.

I also like the cards where the blaze comes from inside the Tower, and not from outside. They come from inside, and them mingle with the flames from the sun. No process can be done only from the outside; probably no process can be made only from the inside.
 

Jewel-ry

Thanks everyone, some interesting thoughts here. I have to say that the off centred windows bother me for some reason.

smleite said:
I like the early depiction of this card, in the Viéville deck: a shepherd, his flock, a tree, and what seems to be a bunch of clouds irradiating beams of intense light. A vision. A revelation. A divine manifestation. Moses and the burning bush. No exploding tower, so no sense of catastrophe: just a man before God’s immense power. A power that is not directed against him, but is a signal of God’s immense mercy – he visits, he manifests, he guides. We are not abandoned and alone.



I wonder if anyone can put up a scan of this or is it one of those very early cards which is only found in a museum?

J :)
 

spoonbender

Jewel-ry said:
I wonder if anyone can put up a scan of this or is it one of those very early cards which is only found in a museum?
I found a link to the card here, Jewel-ry - I have to say it looks very interesting!
 

Diana

Thanks for the link spoonbender. I was just going to scan it! (The Vieville Tarot is most interesting, although it's not a Tarot of Marseille per se. The Sun is where Waite got the inspiration for his Sun card - the person on a horse carrying a banner.)

The off-balanced windows in the Maison Dieu probably mean something to the effect that man can never build something perfect if he only uses his willpower and intellect, and neglects his spirituality. Don't forget that the Maison Dieu comes right after the Devil.