Jodorowsky Camoin: Those various mysterious little balls

Jodo-Camoin TdM: Those various mysterious little balls

Those little balls have intrigued and bugged me for a long time. Now we have Jodorowsky's take from his _ La voie du tarot _.

I'll start with the various balls in or near hands:

• LE BATELEUR: The yellow ball the Magician is holding is a "receptive denier". It is a "miniature sun" and "symbolizes perfection, truth, but it also indicates that the Magician doesn't forget the everyday necessities". (p. 139)
  
• LE CHARIOT: The charioteer is hiding a white object in his left hand. "One can make out the curvature of a ball or a a white egg that one already noticed under the armpit of Le Mat." "It is a secret that he guards -- a sphere of secret perfection [or does "sphère de perfection secrète" translate as 'secret sphere of perfection'?]. (p. 177) The mystery of the sphere remains unrevealed. Perhaps in another book! Seriously, though, I don't expect any pundit to have the answers.
  
  (Note that Jodo's commentary on Le Mat doesn't mention the white object.)
  
  Note: I haven't found Jodo's explanation yet for the left hand touching against the one of the four round gold objects in the charioteers belt's, nor any explanation for the four round gold objects themselves. But then this touching detail is not added by Jodo-Camoin; it's already in the 1760 Conver.
  
• VALET DE DENIERS: The yellow round object held in the valet's left hand "could be a piece of gold like that of the Magician's". (p. 369)
  
• ROY DE BATON: I haven't found any explanation yet for the blue round objects in the King's belt, nor why his left hand is touching one of them. (In the 1760 Conver, the king is close to but not touching the round object.)
  

Thank you for posting these comments from the book...It certainly seems like "partial" treatment of a topic by the author...

Hadar takes exception, also with C-J, e.g., with the restoration of the Eagle's egg ....feeling that it is part of the throne, I believe he says, in La Papesse...also the Eagle's egg appears in C-J's deck in other cards as a restored element. In their "slide show" C-J show how they "restored" elements...I find some of their slide show quite interesting, but am not suprised at discussions of the little balls in relation so some cards but not others.

My opinion is out on the "restored elements" and haven't yet read the "book," but I do like the deck. I am leaning toward liking the Hadar better, however, and await the Grimaud in the mail...Don't have other TdM decks that I probably should have in order to examine them side by side. I do have the Conver 1995 restored and the "woodcut" one from C-J.

So, the dialogue continues...

terri

tmgrl ... I think it's unfair and disingenuine of Hadar to bash Jodo-Camoin. Hadar doesn't have clean hands either. He adds details too without historical precedent, e.g., he added a crown in one of the pip cards.

I didn't mean to imply Hadar had "clean hands" in this matter...

If I did, it wasn't my intent and I agree that I am not sure either is "correct" in what they call "restoration" of elements. That was really what I meant to imply...that I don't know which, if either, I believe re: some elements "restored."

terri

It is quite interesting to be able to see what either Jodorowski or Camoin have to say of the various details of their deck - as it is likewise of Hadar for his. For me, it is also quite interesting to note what each may say of the other's deck, as these are the most two recent and easily commercially available Marseille re-creations which are each under ten years old.

Their various disputes, however, perhaps do better belong to another thread, unless about the item under discussion (in this case, the little balls).

I wonder if there is a consistent sense in which Jodorowski mentions for all small round golden renditions as Gold Coins/Deniers...

It would certainly make sense - does he, however, also say the same of the buttons upon the Hanged Man, which Lee previously noted seemed to depict representations of the Tree of Life? I ask simply as these are, too, little circular objects which, though buttons, may be taken as spherical buttons (and hence 'little balls')...

Rusty,

Whilst reading your comment about the little white egg or ball under the armpit of the Le Mat, I found myself a little intrigued about the white ball near the wrist of his left hand. I know this appears to originate on his sleeve but it looks so similar to the part that we see under his armpit, I wonder if it is significant.

All this talk about mysterious little balls has had me studying this deck alongside the Hadar just looking for those differences. I know this thread is about the balls near hands but the one near his left foot is bothering me too!

J.

tmgrl2 said:

Thank you for posting these comments from the book...It certainly seems like "partial" treatment of a topic by the author...

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I guess that the thing to remember is that, in most if not all cases, the discovery of the 'restored' or added elements comes before any interpretation of such elements. For example, the egg in the Papesse card is restored or added in response to what 'could' (if you squint a certain way ) be an egg in the Bibliothèque Nationale housed version of the 1760 Conver deck. Only after the detail is brought to light can the interpretation of that element begin. Thus, some of the various elements are commented on by Jodo and others aren't. A fair number of the elements are in fact commented on by Jodo in his book.

jmd said:

I wonder if there is a consistent sense in which Jodorowski mentions for all small round golden renditions as Gold Coins/Deniers...

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I can't say yet as I haven't fully studied Jodo's book in that regard.

[D]oes he, however, also say the same of the buttons upon the Hanged Man, which Lee previously noted seemed to depict representations of the Tree of Life? I ask simply as these are, too, little circular objects which, though buttons, may be taken as spherical buttons (and hence 'little balls')...

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I'm impressed by Lee's perceptiveness.

Quoting from Jodo's book at p. 207 (on the Hanged Man):

"The buttons from the clothing could symbolize the Sephirot of the Cabalistic tradition."

He goes on for about a third of a page explaining what each of the buttons represents in terms of the Sephirot.

Originally posted by Jewel-ry Whilst reading your comment about the little white egg or ball under the armpit of the Le Mat, I found myself a little intrigued about the white ball near the wrist of his left hand. I know this appears to originate on his sleeve but it looks so similar to the part that we see under his armpit, I wonder if it is significant.

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Jodorowsky refers to the white ball near the wrist of Le Mat's left hand in French as a "grelot" which translates into English as a "(little spherical) bell".

Now let's start from the beginning. (p. 134 in the book)

"Le Mat is also a musical person, as his costume is decorated with little spherical bells. One could imagine that he plays the music of the spheres, the cosmic harmony. In several elements in his costume, one finds symbols of the creative trinity. his baton carries a small triangle composed of three points; one of the bells, white, is a cirlce divided by three lines .... One can, if it suits one, see therein the Christian Trinity, or the first three Sephirot of the Tree of Life of the Kabbalah, or the three fundamental processes of existence: creation, conservation and dissolution. The movement of Le Mat is thus guided by the divine or creative principle. The road becomes blue sky as he covers it: he advances on pure and receptive ground, which he makes sacred as he travels it.

"As well, on Le Mat's belt, one can see four yellow little spherical bells which could correspond to the four centres of the human being as symbolized by the Suits of the Minor Arcana of the Tarot [...]: Swords (intellectual centre), Cups (emotional), Batons (sexual and creative) and Coins (corporal). Le Mat produces luminous energy in these four centres, which also are symbolized by the four worlds of the Kabbalah: Atziloth, the divine world; Briiah, the world of creation; Yetzirah, the world of formation; and Assiah, the world of matter and of action.

[marginal note: p. 135][Getting to the little spherical bell of which Jewel-ry speaks]"The white bell [is] divided in four by three lines."

Jodo gives no explanation of what the significance of the division into four may be. However, it may certainly be along the lines of the division by four mentioned above: four centres of the human being and/or the four worlds of the Kabbalah.

All this talk about mysterious little balls has had me studying this deck alongside the Hadar just looking for those differences.

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The best comparison deck to use with the Jodo-Camoin is the Héron (photoreproduction of the Bibliothèque Nationale museum specimen of the 1760 Conver Tarot de Marseille deck). This is because Jodo & Camoin used that museum specimen (design and colours) as the starting point for the Jodo-Camoin 'restored' Tarot de Marseille deck.

Le Mat

Jewel-ry said:

I know this thread is about the balls near hands but the one near his left foot is bothering me too!

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A soccer ball that shrunk in the dryer? Seriously, though, Jodorowsky unfortunately doesn't discuss that particular ball. However, it may be a bell that fell. And note that the three lines of the ball divide the ball into four parts, like the bells discussed in my first post answering your questions.