kwaw
Bernice said:
The bible has always been one of the primary books used in bibliomancy; as far as I am aware the questions asked are not always confined to being of a religious nature.
L'Etoile - how may it be read?
The bible has always been one of the primary books used in bibliomancy; as far as I am aware the questions asked are not always confined to being of a religious nature.
Bernice
L'Etoile' - how it might be read?
I see Kwaw, your thoughts about L'Etoile were via bibliomancy.
Bee
I see Kwaw, your thoughts about L'Etoile were via bibliomancy.
Bee
kwaw
Bernice said:I see Kwaw, your thoughts about L'Etoile were via bibliomancy.
Bee
No. But if that's how you read it, close enough I suppose.
DoctorArcanus
I stumbled about this ballad by Guido Cavalcanti (1255 ca. - 1300).
Isn't it appropriate to the TdM Star?
(the bold is mine)
I found a shepherdess in forest glade
Lovelier, methought, than any star to see;
Her rippled tresses wore a golden hue,
Her eyes were bright with love, her cheeks flushed deep
As roses are; the while she tended sheep,
Her feet were bare and sprinkled o’er with dew;
She sang as maids in love are wont to do,
Adorned with every grace she seemed to be.
I greeted her forthwith in Love’s own name
And asked her if she chanced in company;
She answered gently that alone she came
Awandering through the wood, and thus spake she:
“Know thou that when the birds sing merrily
’Tis then this heart of mine doth crave a lover!”
Threon, since she had told me of her plight
And I could hear the birds sing merrily,
Unto myself I said: “Now is the season
With this sweet shepherdess of joy to reason!”
Then did I crave her favour, if to kiss
And to embrace she reckoned not amiss.
She took me by the hand in tender way
And said that she had given her heart to me;
She led me underneath a verdant spray,
Where flowers of every colour I could see;
So fond, so blithe was everything anigh
I thought the god of love himself stood by.
In un boschetto trovai pasturella
più che la stella — bella al mi’ parere.
Cavelli avea biondetti e ricciutelli
e li occhi pien d’ amor, cera rosata:
con sua verghetta pasturav’ agnelli,
e, scalza, di rugiada era bagnata;
cantava come fosse ’nnamorata;
er’ adornata — di tutto piacere.
D’ amor la salutai inmantenente
e domandai s’ avesse compagnia,
ed ella mi rispose dolcemente
che sola sola per lo bosco gia,
e disse: “Sacci, quando l’ augel pia,
allor disia — ’l mio cor drudo avere.”
Po’ che mi disse di sua condizione,
e per lo bosco augelli audío cantare,
fra me stesso dicea: “Or’ è stagione
di questa pasturella gio’ pigliare.”
Merzè le chiesi sol che di baciare
e d’ abbracciare — se fosse ’n volere.
Per man mi prese d’ amorosa voglia
e disse che donato m’ avea ’l core.
Menommi sott’ una freschetta foglia
là dov’ i’ vidi fior d’ ogni colore,
e tanto vi sentío gioia e dolzore,
che dio d’ amore — parvemi vedere.
Isn't it appropriate to the TdM Star?
(the bold is mine)
I found a shepherdess in forest glade
Lovelier, methought, than any star to see;
Her rippled tresses wore a golden hue,
Her eyes were bright with love, her cheeks flushed deep
As roses are; the while she tended sheep,
Her feet were bare and sprinkled o’er with dew;
She sang as maids in love are wont to do,
Adorned with every grace she seemed to be.
I greeted her forthwith in Love’s own name
And asked her if she chanced in company;
She answered gently that alone she came
Awandering through the wood, and thus spake she:
“Know thou that when the birds sing merrily
’Tis then this heart of mine doth crave a lover!”
Threon, since she had told me of her plight
And I could hear the birds sing merrily,
Unto myself I said: “Now is the season
With this sweet shepherdess of joy to reason!”
Then did I crave her favour, if to kiss
And to embrace she reckoned not amiss.
She took me by the hand in tender way
And said that she had given her heart to me;
She led me underneath a verdant spray,
Where flowers of every colour I could see;
So fond, so blithe was everything anigh
I thought the god of love himself stood by.
In un boschetto trovai pasturella
più che la stella — bella al mi’ parere.
Cavelli avea biondetti e ricciutelli
e li occhi pien d’ amor, cera rosata:
con sua verghetta pasturav’ agnelli,
e, scalza, di rugiada era bagnata;
cantava come fosse ’nnamorata;
er’ adornata — di tutto piacere.
D’ amor la salutai inmantenente
e domandai s’ avesse compagnia,
ed ella mi rispose dolcemente
che sola sola per lo bosco gia,
e disse: “Sacci, quando l’ augel pia,
allor disia — ’l mio cor drudo avere.”
Po’ che mi disse di sua condizione,
e per lo bosco augelli audío cantare,
fra me stesso dicea: “Or’ è stagione
di questa pasturella gio’ pigliare.”
Merzè le chiesi sol che di baciare
e d’ abbracciare — se fosse ’n volere.
Per man mi prese d’ amorosa voglia
e disse che donato m’ avea ’l core.
Menommi sott’ una freschetta foglia
là dov’ i’ vidi fior d’ ogni colore,
e tanto vi sentío gioia e dolzore,
che dio d’ amore — parvemi vedere.
Moonbow
Its beautiful Marco, and certainly could be appropriate to the Star, or made to fit the Star in readings. I've often seen the Star as representing a young girl bathing at dawn, so the time of day would be right. Its good to let the imagination loose in a reading.
kwaw
In the cary sheet of course, tis not a maid but a youth, consistent with its Aquarian/Ganymede like tableau. ( The change to a maid is consistent with the homosexual pastoral tradition, in which the beloved is disguised as a woman).
________________________________________
THE TEARES OF AN AFFECTIONATE SHEPHEARD SICKE FOR LOVE,
OR THE COMPLAINT OF DAPHNIS FOR THE LOVE OF GANIMEDE.
Scarce had the morning starre hid from the light
Heavens crimson canopie with stars bespangled,
But I began to rue th' unhappy sight
Of that faire boy that had my hart intangled;
Cursing the time, the place, the sense, the sin;
I came, I saw, I viewd, I slipped in.
If it be sinne to love a sweet-fac'd boy,
Whose amber locks trust up in golden trammels
Dangle adowne his lovely cheekes with joy,
When pearle and flowers his faire haire enamels;
If it be sinne to love a lovely lad,
Oh then sinne I, for whom my soule is sad.
His ivory-white and alablaster skin
Is staind throughout with rare vermillion red,
Whose twinckling starrie lights doe never blin
To shine on lovely Venus, Beauties bed;
But as the lillie and the blushing rose,
So white and red on him in order growes.
...
And thus it hapned, Death and Cupid met
Upon a time at swilling Bacchus house,
Where daintie cates upon the boord were set,
And goblets full of wine to drinke carouse:
Where Love and Death did love the licor so,
That out they fall and to the fray they goe.
And having both their quivers at their backe
Fild full of arrows; th' one of fatall steele,
The other all of gold; Deaths shaft was black,
But Loves was yellow: Fortune turnd her wheele,
And from Deaths quiver fell a fatall shaft,
That under Cupid by the winde was waft.
And at the same time by ill hap there fell
Another arrow out of Cupids quiver,
The which was carried by the winde at will,
And under Death the amorous shaft did shiver:
They being parted, Love tooke up Deaths dart,
And Death tooke up Loves arrow for his part.
...
Or if thou list to bathe thy naked limbs
Within the cristall of a pearle-bright brooke,
Paved with dainty pibbles to the brims,
Or cleare, wherein thyselfe thyselfe mayst looke;
Weele goe to Ladon, whose still trickling noyse
Will lull thee fast asleepe amids thy joyes.
...
The Affectionate Shepherd by Richard Barnfield 1594
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/19902/19902-h/19902-h.htm
________________________________________
THE TEARES OF AN AFFECTIONATE SHEPHEARD SICKE FOR LOVE,
OR THE COMPLAINT OF DAPHNIS FOR THE LOVE OF GANIMEDE.
Scarce had the morning starre hid from the light
Heavens crimson canopie with stars bespangled,
But I began to rue th' unhappy sight
Of that faire boy that had my hart intangled;
Cursing the time, the place, the sense, the sin;
I came, I saw, I viewd, I slipped in.
If it be sinne to love a sweet-fac'd boy,
Whose amber locks trust up in golden trammels
Dangle adowne his lovely cheekes with joy,
When pearle and flowers his faire haire enamels;
If it be sinne to love a lovely lad,
Oh then sinne I, for whom my soule is sad.
His ivory-white and alablaster skin
Is staind throughout with rare vermillion red,
Whose twinckling starrie lights doe never blin
To shine on lovely Venus, Beauties bed;
But as the lillie and the blushing rose,
So white and red on him in order growes.
...
And thus it hapned, Death and Cupid met
Upon a time at swilling Bacchus house,
Where daintie cates upon the boord were set,
And goblets full of wine to drinke carouse:
Where Love and Death did love the licor so,
That out they fall and to the fray they goe.
And having both their quivers at their backe
Fild full of arrows; th' one of fatall steele,
The other all of gold; Deaths shaft was black,
But Loves was yellow: Fortune turnd her wheele,
And from Deaths quiver fell a fatall shaft,
That under Cupid by the winde was waft.
And at the same time by ill hap there fell
Another arrow out of Cupids quiver,
The which was carried by the winde at will,
And under Death the amorous shaft did shiver:
They being parted, Love tooke up Deaths dart,
And Death tooke up Loves arrow for his part.
...
Or if thou list to bathe thy naked limbs
Within the cristall of a pearle-bright brooke,
Paved with dainty pibbles to the brims,
Or cleare, wherein thyselfe thyselfe mayst looke;
Weele goe to Ladon, whose still trickling noyse
Will lull thee fast asleepe amids thy joyes.
...
The Affectionate Shepherd by Richard Barnfield 1594
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/19902/19902-h/19902-h.htm
prudence
Wow, kwaw, that is fascinating! That really does sound like the Star "maiden"... at least the ones I've seen that were clearly a boy.... funny, looking at the two poems posted, it seems that people did a lot of bathing at dawn.
kwaw
Ganymede was taken by some as a type of Christ, or as the beloved of Christ (deus, zeus), St. John the Evangelist:
Quote:
“In "An Hymn of the Fairest Fair," in the Flowers of Sion, Drummond attempts to discuss the glories of God and Christ in sensuous Ovidian terms, and awkwardly presents a picture of Zeus and Ganymede, in which Christ is both puer aeternus and formosus puer:
. . . not far from [God's] right side,
With curled locks Youth ever doth abide;
Rose-cheeked Youth, who, garlanded with flowers
Still blooming, ceaselessly unto thee pours
Immortal nectar in a cup of gold,
That by no darts of ages thou grow old,
And, as ends and beginnings thee not claim,
Successionless that thou be still the same.
"This passage very much resembles Giles Fletcher's comparison of Christ's ascent into heaven to the rape of Ganymede in Christ's Victorie and Triumph (1610). What Douglas Bush, in Mythology and the Reanissance Tradition, says of Fletcher Christ could be said of many a Renaissance poet's portrayal of Christ:
"Fletcher's Christ in the wilderness might be another Leander or Endymion, Narcissus or Hermaphroditus, with his black hair in short curls, and "His cheekes as snowie apples, sop't in wine.""
All of these figures coalesce in the boy-surrogate Hylas, whom, according to Drummond, it is indeed a glory for men to behold if their are fortunate enough to glimpse him rising from the mirror of the collective unconscious:
Over a crystal cource
Amintas laid his face,
Of purling streams to see the restless course:
But scarce he had o'ershadowed the place,
When (spying in the ground a child arise,
Like to himself in stature, face, and eyes)
He rose o'erjoyed, and cried,
Dear mates, aproach, see whom I have descried;
The boy of whom strange stories shepherds tell,
Oft-called Hylas, dwelleth in this well."
End quote from:
http://www.infopt.demon.co.uk/pastor04.htm
Quote:
“Particularly suggestive was the tale of a shepherd named Ganymede, whose beauty so captivated Zeus that, disguised as an eagle, the king of gods carried off the youth to rape or seduce him. If today we read the story as a tale of same-sex desire, in the Middle Ages writers often detected a veiled message about the love of God. The anonymous fourteenth-century author of the Moralized Ovid even turned Zeus and Ganymede into symbols of Christ and John the Evangelist.”
End quote from:
http://www.glbtq.com/arts/eur_art4_medieval,2.html
Quote:
“In "An Hymn of the Fairest Fair," in the Flowers of Sion, Drummond attempts to discuss the glories of God and Christ in sensuous Ovidian terms, and awkwardly presents a picture of Zeus and Ganymede, in which Christ is both puer aeternus and formosus puer:
. . . not far from [God's] right side,
With curled locks Youth ever doth abide;
Rose-cheeked Youth, who, garlanded with flowers
Still blooming, ceaselessly unto thee pours
Immortal nectar in a cup of gold,
That by no darts of ages thou grow old,
And, as ends and beginnings thee not claim,
Successionless that thou be still the same.
"This passage very much resembles Giles Fletcher's comparison of Christ's ascent into heaven to the rape of Ganymede in Christ's Victorie and Triumph (1610). What Douglas Bush, in Mythology and the Reanissance Tradition, says of Fletcher Christ could be said of many a Renaissance poet's portrayal of Christ:
"Fletcher's Christ in the wilderness might be another Leander or Endymion, Narcissus or Hermaphroditus, with his black hair in short curls, and "His cheekes as snowie apples, sop't in wine.""
All of these figures coalesce in the boy-surrogate Hylas, whom, according to Drummond, it is indeed a glory for men to behold if their are fortunate enough to glimpse him rising from the mirror of the collective unconscious:
Over a crystal cource
Amintas laid his face,
Of purling streams to see the restless course:
But scarce he had o'ershadowed the place,
When (spying in the ground a child arise,
Like to himself in stature, face, and eyes)
He rose o'erjoyed, and cried,
Dear mates, aproach, see whom I have descried;
The boy of whom strange stories shepherds tell,
Oft-called Hylas, dwelleth in this well."
End quote from:
http://www.infopt.demon.co.uk/pastor04.htm
Quote:
“Particularly suggestive was the tale of a shepherd named Ganymede, whose beauty so captivated Zeus that, disguised as an eagle, the king of gods carried off the youth to rape or seduce him. If today we read the story as a tale of same-sex desire, in the Middle Ages writers often detected a veiled message about the love of God. The anonymous fourteenth-century author of the Moralized Ovid even turned Zeus and Ganymede into symbols of Christ and John the Evangelist.”
End quote from:
http://www.glbtq.com/arts/eur_art4_medieval,2.html
kwaw
As the Sun was symbol of the Sun, the most common reference of the star on the shoulder in the medieval period occurred on portrayals of Mary as Stella Maris, Star of the Sea.
Amava al so Fijo
e amava a ella,
Tenié por sol al Fijo,
la madre por estrella;
Querié bien al Fijuelo,
e bien a la ponzella,
Porquelos servie poco
estava con grant querella.
As he loved the Son
So he loved her
The Son as Sun
Mother as Star
As dearly the child
So dearly the virgin
That he served each too little
Was his great concern.
In the two lights system we may note too that the Pope was considered the light of the Sun/Son, and the Emperor the light of the Moon. If we place the TdM numbered cards, 1-21 in a 3x7 pattern, the Emperess lies under the light of the Mother/Star; the Emperor beneath the light of the Moon, and the Pope beneath the light of the Sun. (And the deceiver the Bateleur is beneath the deceiver the devil, the Popesse/Church is beneath the House of God/Church; the love of God/Caritas as exemplified by the resurrection is above the love of man / cupiditas; the Chariot (called in the Steele sermon 'little world') is beneath the 'big' World, with its four holy animals of the divine chariot of Ezekiel.
Amava al so Fijo
e amava a ella,
Tenié por sol al Fijo,
la madre por estrella;
Querié bien al Fijuelo,
e bien a la ponzella,
Porquelos servie poco
estava con grant querella.
As he loved the Son
So he loved her
The Son as Sun
Mother as Star
As dearly the child
So dearly the virgin
That he served each too little
Was his great concern.
In the two lights system we may note too that the Pope was considered the light of the Sun/Son, and the Emperor the light of the Moon. If we place the TdM numbered cards, 1-21 in a 3x7 pattern, the Emperess lies under the light of the Mother/Star; the Emperor beneath the light of the Moon, and the Pope beneath the light of the Sun. (And the deceiver the Bateleur is beneath the deceiver the devil, the Popesse/Church is beneath the House of God/Church; the love of God/Caritas as exemplified by the resurrection is above the love of man / cupiditas; the Chariot (called in the Steele sermon 'little world') is beneath the 'big' World, with its four holy animals of the divine chariot of Ezekiel.
Rosanne
The Virgin and the Vamp....
As a child my favourite hymn was based on Ave Maria Stellis...the Christianising of Venus. It is called Hail Queen of Heaven
Hail, Queen of heaven, the ocean star,
Guide of the wanderer here below,
Thrown on life's surge, we claim thy care,
Save us from peril and from woe.
Mother of Christ, O Star of the sea
Pray for the wanderer, pray for me.
O gentle, chaste, and spotless Maid,
We sinners make our prayers through thee;
Remind thy Son that He has paid
The price of our iniquity.
Virgin most pure, O star of the sea,
Pray for the sinner, pray for me.
And while to Him Who reigns above
In Godhead one, in Persons three,
The Source of life, of grace, of love,
Homage we pay on bended knee:
Do thou, bright Queen, O star of the sea,
Pray for thy children, pray for me.
Just typing it had me singing.....
anyways... The TdM Star stills reminds me of Venus, even though the previous poetry was beautiful.
The lady pours upon the the land as Morning Star and pours upon the water as Evening star (milky way).
The remarkable brightness of Venus gains lustre from her nearness to Earth.
When we are in love or Love we become brighter too. Venus is Earth's sibling twin the Vamp. She turns toward the Sun and sizzles.She is the example of the ground of Hope that we love ourselves and our planet; she shows herself as a term of pregnancy (40 weeks) to remind us she is barren and life is here if we take care.
I read her as expectation
~Rosanne
As a child my favourite hymn was based on Ave Maria Stellis...the Christianising of Venus. It is called Hail Queen of Heaven
Hail, Queen of heaven, the ocean star,
Guide of the wanderer here below,
Thrown on life's surge, we claim thy care,
Save us from peril and from woe.
Mother of Christ, O Star of the sea
Pray for the wanderer, pray for me.
O gentle, chaste, and spotless Maid,
We sinners make our prayers through thee;
Remind thy Son that He has paid
The price of our iniquity.
Virgin most pure, O star of the sea,
Pray for the sinner, pray for me.
And while to Him Who reigns above
In Godhead one, in Persons three,
The Source of life, of grace, of love,
Homage we pay on bended knee:
Do thou, bright Queen, O star of the sea,
Pray for thy children, pray for me.
Just typing it had me singing.....
anyways... The TdM Star stills reminds me of Venus, even though the previous poetry was beautiful.
The lady pours upon the the land as Morning Star and pours upon the water as Evening star (milky way).
The remarkable brightness of Venus gains lustre from her nearness to Earth.
When we are in love or Love we become brighter too. Venus is Earth's sibling twin the Vamp. She turns toward the Sun and sizzles.She is the example of the ground of Hope that we love ourselves and our planet; she shows herself as a term of pregnancy (40 weeks) to remind us she is barren and life is here if we take care.
I read her as expectation
~Rosanne
