XI - La Force

jmd

There are various ways to try to understand the subtle imagery which arises in different versions of the Marseille.

The first is to try to see what may have been indicated intentionally, and another what arises from our own reflections on items which, though perhaps not consciously placed there by the artist, may nonetheless have found its way for reasons unknown by them - but intrinsically significant.

With regards to the 'Crown' upon the head-dress, both the Hadar and the Conver have this very clear. If indeed there exists a Hebrew alphabetic raison d'etre for the sequence, then the associated Kaph may also be used to indicate this Crown.

In my own personal reflections, one of the things I found quite marvelous is that her 'hat', unlike the otherwise similarly 'lemniscating' hat of the Bateleur, seems to depict more a flowform, with the flow perhaps from on high - from the Crown - needing to weave to the right, and then to the left, in ongoing rythmic way, before it enters her own internal reflections (within her head).

The very way that the double ream of her 'hat' seems to re-enter itself has also recalled to mind the alchemical flask called a pelican, where the narrow neck and head returns within the main body. Here, it reminded me, therefore, of a double pelican. In imagery, the pelican and phoenix are closely connected.

With regards to the 'scales', I must admit that I had never seen those as scales before, but rather more as outspurts of intellectual flames. This is especially more evident on the Dodal than on the Hadar (I also attach a copy of the Dodal here for comparison).

As an interesting aside, one can see what kind of reflections may have lead Crowley and Harris to transform this card as they did - to its detriment to my mind, but that's another matter. If one looks especially at the Dodal, on which the animal is far more lion-like than on the Conver, the woman seems to sit on the beast, and the opening of the lion's mouth placed in such a way that it can be more easily seen as metaphorically opening the mouth of her own sexual organ - hence also without apparent physical effort.

The Dodal is also quite significant in that only four cards do not use the definite article ('the', or rather, 'le' or 'la') before the card's name. On the card, then, it is not, as may reasonably be expected, 'La Force', but rather simply 'Force' - interestingly, the three depicted cardinal virtues (Justice, Strength and Temperance being amongst these!). Similarly on the earlier Noblet, by the way.

With regards to the possibility of her 'hat' not being a hat a all, but possibly a beast of some kind - whether salamander, serpent, or other, these are the kinds of reflections which may certainly aid in further unveiling aspects of the card.

What I personally do when I take my imaginative faculty along those important exegetical flights of possibilities, and allow analogical thinking to play with its ramifications, is that I also then allow for even more mundane than expected possiblities to be imaginatively played with. Could what we have taken as a 'hat' be no more than an elaborate way her hair is plaited or braided and arranged, perhaps with the assistance of some netting (the 'scales') and ribbons ?
 

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tmgrl2

Good bump of a thread...I have just finished downloading Robert O'Neill's pages on origins...I'll add here in case anyone is interested:

http://www.tarot.com/about-tarot/library/boneill/fortitude

Personally, I like the TdM La Force (Fortitude, Strength)...when I look at the Rider-Waite...the woman looks almost like she's petting a dog who is licking her hands....whereas in the Camoin-Jodo ( and other TdM decks) the woman has one hand on each part of the lion's mouth and looks like she is prying it open...that takes ...guts, courage, fortitude....does she look almost as if she is astride the lion?

I like the idea of depicting a woman since it brings in the masculine/feminine here...one might expect a male figure...but use of the female suggest that the trait of fortitude/strength is an inner strength not outer physical strength...moral strength.

Also, the background is all white...no earthly reminders...pure force. The Lion is Leo...an active sign, no? so the woman uses powerful instincts...

Silvie Simon says: (LOL no, I'm not playing "Simon Says"..
Strength is active and positive. She takes the violence of instinct and channels it for good. She is the triumph of intelligence over brutality. She is reason and love, which unite to subdue instinct. She is the incarnation of moral and physical health. She is confidence, conquest, bravery and ambition.

Also, 11....1+1 = 2...another reason I like La Force in position XI.
Duality , conflict, struggle.

Again, Silvie Simon says:
11 brings us back to the pentagram 5, and the hexagram, 6---that is, to the two stars of microcosm and macrocosm. It is the reunion of these two starts that Strength will achieve after her struggle and victory. 11 is the chief number for all intiation, especially in multiples of 11, 33, and 77.

I am really leaning more toward the TdM once again here....with the position and representation of La Force.

terri
 

punchinella

The 'scales' in her 'hat', in the (Dodal) scan above, look to me more like an ear of wheat, which would fit with the notion of her representing Virgo.

I'm interested in this 'pairing' issue . . . last night, spreading cards around on the floor & pairing them up, I did pair Strength with Le Bateleur precisely because of the shape of the hat. But in doing so I destroyed the pattern of constellations created through numerological reduction (which may be inapplicable to cards featuring Roman numerals anyway--???) --Up to this point, I've sort of taken for granted that Strength goes with the Papess, & the Wheel with Le Bateleur . . . but perhaps this is way off.

Thanks for the Simon snippets tmgrl, I enjoyed reading them :)
 

jmd

Pairings of Atouts/Major Arcana cards is suggested in various ways by different authors, each of which are far later than the times at which the first extent Marseille patterns arise.

My personal favourite is of pairing, and then looking at the imagery as it presents itself (rather than associated astrological correlations and the like), I with XI, II with XII, &c, with the Fool & XXI.

The pairing aspects, of course, may be better discussed in a more general form in another thread - except as it may relate specifically to this card.

Again, though the general comments about the whole sequence have also been discussed and various ways in other threads, I personally find it interesting that if one does pair the cards according to their Roman numeral similarity, and also connect the Hebrew letters by allocating the eleventh letter to this eleventh card, the first letter with a dual form, Kaph, is here placed (it is not only a double letter, but one of five which has a final form). This duality expressed by the final form indicates quite well, to my own personal reflections if to no-one else, a sense that here is the first card which will fold back and pair up.

To see what I mean, it may be worth taking the time to write out the letters in sequence, noting those which have a final form. Here, also, the very shape of the Lion's mouth (again, especially in the Dodal) mirrors the shape of Kaph.

But returning, rather, to the card's image itself, and specifically the 'hat', another image which sometimes become apparent is the way in which it can look like a branch with those 'ears or corn' or 'flames' looking like the leaves of an autumnal branch, still somewhat attached to the horizontally placed branch in her hair. For this, see again the attached image.

The same part is also reminiscent of the lower portion of a feather... amongst other imagery which can arise in imagination :)
 

tmgrl2

ty, jmd...I do have one list....(Umbrae's numbers) where I pair XI with I...and so forth, but this is worthy of another thread..

I just noticed "the ear of corn" or lower part of "feather."
ty for that observation...

I just posted below, since my early morinng before work brain was on 8 swords ...sorry...edited to delete "wrong" comments....

terri
 

spoonbender

I was looking in a book about the painter Jordaens and came across a very interesting painting. I couldn't find it online anywhere, so I had to scan it in - I think the link with the Strenght-card is clear. I'm not saying that the one was influenced by the other, but I nonetheless thought it was interesting to see :). I hope you guys think so too.
 

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jmd

Ahhh! thankyou for that image by Jacob Jordaens, spoonbender (circa 16-17th century ?)

I wonder if that is from one of his depictions of the seven virtues - I do not have my references handy ?

If it is, as for the Tarot depiction, it remains quite consistent with that ancient Greek cardinal virtue after which even the title retains its name: Fortitude or, as we better know her, Strength...

...and a wonderful addition to have!
 

spoonbender

Hi Jmd - thank you for your reply. According to the book, the painting was made in 1630 and now belongs to the National Gallery of Ireland. It isn't a painting of one of the virtues, but a detail from a painting called "Triumph of the Eucharist". The woman in the centre, carried by a lion, is assumed to represent the Church. I still found the resemblance to Strength striking, though.

Thank you for your interest :).

Spoonbender
 

roppo

Mind if I join in?

I know one medieval example where three of the four cardinal virtues are depicted and no Prudence. It is the Bible of Notger, now in the custody of Musee Curtius, Liege. Once I wrote a web article on it and discussed the origin of the tarot, but being written in Japanese the article was almost illegible to most of tarot fans. Well, you can see the jpegs, at least.

http://www7.ocn.ne.jp/~elfindog/rotantg.htm

To summarize it concisely, the article tries to show the Meuse art influence on the tarot iconography and suggests an achetype of tarot might have been developed from the ivory (later wood) curving craftmanship of Meuse area.

As to the Fortitude in the Notger Bible, I suppose the image has a definite relation to the Book of Daniel (6.22) "My God hath sent his angel, nad hath shut the lion's mouths... " judging from its "Tigris" picture.

Ah, if this topic is a common knowledge among AT Forums, please tell me so. I'm newie here and now frantically searching older threads 3 hours a day, 5days a week...
 

jmd

Please do join in, roppo!

If items have previously been discussed, this does not matter at all - but rather their re-discussion may indeed open to newer ways of seeing and saying either the same, or indeed different things.

With regards to ivory carvings, you may be interested to also read a smallish article I wrote for the November 2003 issue of the Association for Tarot Studies 2005 International Conference Newsletter on Iraqi Museum pieces which may have gone missing...

Unfortunately, I cannot, in your link, make out clearly the (seven?) images painted around the central gold-leafed Christ in Ascension. Having seen them in better resolution, could they indicate, perhaps in unexpected ways, the seven virtues (Prudence/Wisdom with possibly a mirror)?

Your scans, however, do show the wonderful similarity of Temperance, Justice and Strength (and of course XXI) - with even the Lion's elongated face and the position of the person's arms and hands being similarly represented.

With further regards to Jordeans, I shall have a look at his 'Triumph of the Eucharist' - thanks again for attaching and discussing the work :)