Favorite Marseilles based styles?

jmd

ihcoyc or Maan, is this Paris Tarot mentioned the Vieville designed Tarot? If it is, it is still available, I believe, as a Heron publication.
 

ihcoyc

Paris Tarot

My Paris Tarot is anonymous. Space has been left, even, for a publisher's name, in a number of traditional places: the 2 of Deniers and the 2 and 3 of Coupes. It only says in these areas: "faict(es) a Paris par. . . " with the rest left blank.

There is a reproduction of the Vieville deck in the Encyclopedia of Tarot, v. III, p. 645, which is the only volume I have handy. These cards are much more "traditional" Marseilles than the cards I have. In my Paris Tarot, the World balances on top of the orb; in the depicted Vieville reproduction, she's in the wreath as usual. The Vieville is the one that contains a rather intriguing prayer on several of the cards. Mine does not have it.

Some of the cards I have are depicted in the same volume of the Encyclopedia, v III, p 420. These depict the unusual Bateleur, the two-faced Justice, the musician in the Moon ( shared, intriguingly, by the Swiss 1JJ deck) and the horse/unicorns of the heraldic Aces that distinguish this Paris deck.

The Paris Tarot I have is a rather "dark" deck, for reasons I cannot exactly finger. The woodcuts seem even more primitive than Marseilles, and the broad swatches of colour put on them by a stencil process do not make them look more sophisticated. The design of Le Fouldre (usually, the House of God) is intriguing: it shows damned souls apparently being drummed into the mouth of Hell by a demon drummer. This may have something to do with it.
 

Cerulean

Just had to say I did go in Sept to a local convention and found two novelty historical tarots (jeu de revolution, corona fererra) and one historical that I favored...

Gumppenberg 1810 by Solleone, or the one that inspired the Ancient Tarots of Lombardy, 1995 and 2002 version. La Stelle might be a youth of indeterminate gender because the muscled men in the deck had flexed chest muscles and the high-waisted gowns of the women favor a small sihouette...the world looks like a delicate decoration. The pips are Spanish style, so I'm thinking this is a very unusual deviation from the standard, strong Marseilles that others favor on this forum.
 

Cerulean

I bumped because a new favorite

Another di Gumppenberg...1830-1845.

The Di Vecchi edition is very very good to me and has divinatory meanings in the book based on the limited color palette. The majors all have colors and meanings supposedly based on the colors. Also, I see the various pips have some flower buds or leaves or roman numerals on the side of the card...and it seems to track from the 1780 Ancient Tarot of Bologna...

So I got a new favorite to learn from and while awaiting the reproduction of Chris Hedera, I can play still with an Italian variant...I posted links in the Di Gumppenberg thread.

I notice some great French links to browse through as well
 

full deck

Other than the Tarot de Paris

ihcoyc said:
My favourite vaguely Marseille style deck is the Paris Tarot, a reproduction deck from Grimaud. It duplicates a seventeenth century deck in the Bibliotheque Nationale in France. The book says that it is the oldest printed deck in existence for which we have all the cards.

Yeah, I envy you just a little in that I wanted to find a copy of that one too. I just recieved the Jacques Vieville Tarot (~1650), which is a bit like the "Paris" in that it has some interesting deviations from the Marseille deck, (Le Maison de dieu" being a tree over which a fiery hailstorm falls and a lack of card titles) I believe there is another thread on this very topic in this "History" forum.

I'm curious, is it possible for one to make an appointment for the Bibliotheque Nationale in Paris to actually *see* these items or are they very picky? I know some places there require a hand-written request, in French, before they will lift a finger . . .

I'd love to look at the original artwork for the sake of the original reproduction technique.
 

Cerulean

Two links-Paris and Vieville variations

Paris:

http://www.spiritone.com/~filipas/Masquerade/Reviews/paris.html

Vieville and other variations, including my di Gumppenberg:

http://membres.lycos.fr/tarobat/mesjeux/gumppenberg/gumppenberg.htm


If you search on google for Di Gumppenberg 1830, the same lycos.fr link comes up with an option to translate into English. Go one screen back and the same picture/page comes up as above, but in English.

Really pretty variations in some ways---in other ways, I can see people finding it an acquired taste.

Mari H.
 

Ross G Caldwell

Re: Two links-Paris and Vieville variations

Mari_Hoshizaki said:
Paris:

http://www.spiritone.com/~filipas/Masquerade/Reviews/paris.html

Vieville and other variations, including my di Gumppenberg:

http://membres.lycos.fr/tarobat/mesjeux/gumppenberg/gumppenberg.htm


If you search on google for Di Gumppenberg 1830, the same lycos.fr link comes up with an option to translate into English. Go one screen back and the same picture/page comes up as above, but in English.

Really pretty variations in some ways---in other ways, I can see people finding it an acquired taste.

Mari H.

Thanks for the websites Mari.

I would love to get a copy of the Paris Tarot. It is anonymous. One thing rarely noted about this deck is that it was one of the two tarots owned by collector Roger de Gaignières, who died in 1714 and left his collection to the Royal Library. The other tarot he owned was the "Charles VI" or "Gringonneur" tarot - which I call the Roger de Gaignières tarot (but nobody has adopted it yet).

The Paris Tarot is out of print, from what I can see on the internet. Reproductions in colour of all of the atouts are given by Christina Olsen in "Art of Tarot".

I shall be keeping my eyes open for dusty tarot decks in out of the way corners in stores here in France, in the off chance that they have an unsold copy of one of these decks.


Ross
 

Emily

I was never really attracted to Marseille's type decks, I have the 1JJ Swiss but I've never really used it but I have to say I've just followed Umbrae's link to the Ancient Italian Lo Scarabeo and I've just been blown away by its beauty. I wasn't intending to buy any more decks for a while and just concentrate on the ones I have but I couldn't resist this one, the Minors, even though pip cards seem very expressive and I love the muted colours. Can't wait for this deck to come, think I'd better say its an early birthday present to myself :)
 

Little Baron

I agree with you Emily. I have never been attracted to that style of decks, but the more that I look them, the more intreagued I get. That one that Umbrae linked us to is lovely and does have such beautiful colours.

Good luck with your early birthday present. Look forward to see how you get on with it.

Best wishes

Yaboot