Card XV - the Devil - face on the belly

ihcoyc said:

But, then, why ascribe this to the Devil?

Click to expand...

I expect that back then, if you wanted to symbolize "this intelligence of 'gut feelings' by skilled stoneworkers" by putting a face on the belly, you might as well make it the devil, because that's the way everyone would read that image anyway. Just as today, if you showed a man with horns and a barbed tail, folks would read the image as the devil, no matter what the artist may have wanted to say by using those attributes.

My own feeling is that the card really did represent the Devil, who probably stood for all three enemies of the soul: the world*, the flesh, and the devil. And the reason for the extra face(s) is that that was one of the standard ways of representing the Devil at the time. That doesn't address the question of antlers vs. goat's horns, though. The antlers make me wonder how the devil character was costumed in plays and parades in the days when the TdM was new.
.............................
*This means "worldly values" and doesn't have anything to do with Trump XXI.

Yuppers, you can go look at old cathedrals and carvings to see the devil has a face in his belly to show that he eats people -- specifically their souls. His horns/antlers are meant to symbolize a fallen and animal nature. This is all pretty standard iconography for the time and readily seen in your basic tour of old churches or any good art history book about the late middle ages.

For a Christian figure look first to the Bible...

Romans 16:17 - 19
I beseech you brethren mark them which cause division, and give occasions of evil contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned: and avoid them. For they that are such serve not the Lord Jesus Christ: but their own bellies. And with sweet preachings and flattering words deceive the hearts of the innocents: for your obedience is spoken of among all men. Therefore am I glad. But yet I would have you wise unto that which is good. And to be innocent as concerning evil.

Philippians 3:18 - 19
For many walk (of whom I have told you often, and now tell you weeping) that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ, whose end is damnation, whose God is their belly and whose glory is to their shame, which are worldly minded.

Sorry I missed this thread til (last night, really but was too tired to respond). I was pouring over books about path design as I plan to make a brick and stone path in my back yard. So I had to smile when I, having just read the chapter on the Devil in Gad's book and looking for more here about it, clicked on this thread to read about a sense of the proper orientation of stone. I will certainly bear this info in mind and why it would be assigned to XV as I decide what kind of pattern I want to construct. Also, makes me wonder what Mormons think about Tarot and this sense of stone orientation what with Joseph Smith's dowsing and stone knowledge.

I really enjoyed Rox's post and it reminded me of the Circle of Life stonehenge built by the owner of Chamard Vineyards in Connecticut, a Dr. something Rothenberg. http://www.thecircleoflife.info/ There's an interesting documentary in that link (kinda long, about an hour) where the building process is described including a comment by one of the stonecutters about how their cell phones charged while they were working on the blue Norwegian granite. That's some potent matter. We tried to visit last year, but it's closed to the public.

Anyway, I wondered if there is some old connection to Peter, and ley lines, etc. I like inching toward, or even just considering an alterntive to the devil equals bad, evil damnation template. Also, I don't know much about Pan, but if the devil derives from this idea, it seems too bad that it got so lopsided. I did buy some Pan perfume from Anya's Garden last year. One of the ingredients is ground hair from around the horns of a male goat. It's supposed to be irresistable, and to be honest, when I first sniffed it I couldn't stop inhaling the scent. I'll just have to wear some when arranging the stone.

There is a french idiomatic expression 'the devil in the belly' mean 'etre fou', to be mad, to be furious, as if that is, anger or intense feelings arise from the guts.

Could that include the sense of madness that includes insanity and/or ecstasy? Or is that strictly the anger variety?

MaureenH said:

Could that include the sense of madness that includes insanity and/or ecstasy? Or is that strictly the anger variety?

Click to expand...

Possibly not only anger but the madness of a passion that over-rides reason - but this is a question that someone whose first language is french is better qualified to answer (anyone?).

MaureenH said:

Also, I don't know much about Pan, but if the devil derives from this idea, it seems too bad that it got so lopsided.

Click to expand...

The connection of the Christian devil with Pan is by and large a 19th century romantic conceit popular among 20th century neo-pagans but with little if any historical evidence to back it up. There is of course a great deal of Christian appropriaton of pagan themes and models which makes the suggestion plausible but on examination proves in the case of Pan/Devil to be false.

Kwaw

kwaw said:

The connection of the Christian devil with Pan is by and large a 19th century romantic conceit popular among 20th century neo-pagans but with little if any historical evidence to back it up. There is of course a great deal of Christian appropriaton of pagan themes and models which makes the suggestion plausible but on examination proves in the case of Pan/Devil to be false.

Kwaw

Click to expand...

OOOO Bingo! That's what I've been waiting for Can you give me any cites for this?

Thanks....

Mac22

Hello kwaw...
Nice to meet you !

1-Yes you done it well brother...
2-So where if not we feel strong ours deepest emotions ?
3-Love,Death a sweet women that decided to left us alone ?
4-The first candy pouch ours mother bought for us that now we can remember well...
5-That is closest to me to XIII card as allways.
I mean death (Close to life as ever) has a red spot on her Mulhadara chakra where ours instinct have its place but express on ours belly.

You done it fine Bro...

eugim

Maureen: I like inching toward, or even just considering an alterntive to the devil equals bad, evil damnation template.

Click to expand...

What about a Sin-Eater? Could be a 'baddie', or a heavily burdened 'goodie'. Just a thought...

Bee