RWS Study Group Poll

I would like to take part in a RWS Study Group with a focus on:


  • Total voters
    23
  • Poll closed .

Teheuti

Please select one of the options if you are interested in a RWS Study Group (or recommend a different format in the comments).
 

Abrac

I'd like to start at the beginning of the PKT and go through parts I, II & Sections 1 and 2 of Part III. I'd probably bail when it gets to the divination stuff.

The introductory stuff reveals a lot about Waite and how he thought. But if most people want to start with The Tarot and Secret Tradition I'm on board.
 

Teheuti

I'd like to start at the beginning of the PKT and go through parts I, II & Sections 1 and 2 of Part III. I'd probably bail when it gets to the divination stuff.

The introductory stuff reveals a lot about Waite and how he thought. But if most people want to start with The Tarot and Secret Tradition I'm on board.
I wouldn't mind going through the whole book but I think a lot of people would bail before we got very far. I really should have put that in as an option on the poll. If we get enough alternate suggestions then we could start a new poll with all the options.
 

Michael Sternbach

I wouldn't mind going through the whole book but I think a lot of people would bail before we got very far. I really should have put that in as an option on the poll. If we get enough alternate suggestions then we could start a new poll with all the options.

I wouldn't mind going through the whole book either, just like we are currently doing with the Book of Thoth over on the Thoth forum.

I wouldn't necessarily suggest going paragraph by paragraph though, but somewhat longer text blocks.
 

Teheuti

I wouldn't mind going through the whole book either, just like we are currently doing with the Book of Thoth over on the Thoth forum.

I wouldn't necessarily suggest going paragraph by paragraph though, but somewhat longer text blocks.
Definitely longer text blocks. The short chapter on the Secret Tradition does require a para-by-para look, but the earlier pages go all over the place, dipping occasionally into really rich material and then into silly quips at other authors. Unfortunately, one really can't justly evaluate the early chapters until the later material is understood.

Waite wrote literally dozens of books about the Secret Tradition. That was the focus of all his life's work - he lived within that understanding. Everything has to be seen from that one perspective if one is to have any understanding of what he is talking about.
 

Teheuti

The other major hint for understanding Waite's book is that he had a photographic memory (as noted by his best friend Arthur Machen). In his work, when he wanted to allude to a whole area of knowledge, without getting off-topic by mentioning it directly, he would include a few words quoted from a key source - right in the middle of a sentence. I don't think it was a 'game' he was playing, or even a treasure-hunt (well, maybe a little). Mostly I think it was just the way his mind worked - his own internal thought processes. Finding these quotes and reading the originals often opens up a whole level of understanding regarding his deeper intentions.

For instance, if a scientist personally believes that everything consists of "One Mind," then it's not surprising if every time he writes out the word "one," even in a scientific paper, there is a possibility of it being, for him, a reminder of his inner beliefs. No one else may see it in his scientific writings (or even need to) unless they deeply understand this about him.
 

Teheuti

For those who want a free-wheeling discussion of the RWS cards - how would this be different than what is in the aeclectic archives on these cards already?
 

Yelell

I voted the oddball (surprise, surprise) -- I'm not looking for a "free-wheeling" association fest, although I'm not sure those who do need to be called out to defend themselves. I'm also not quite looking to dedicate myself to the life's work of Arthur Waite to "elevate" him to a sort of pseudo-god. He's just a relayer of information. The cards and the significance of what's specifically on them matter to me; without them his writings would be forgotten by now. Still, I hope you get the analytical study group you're looking for, as I can see now that there is no place on the forum really limited and dedicated to that area. But... I'm out. :)
 

Zephyros

Thank you Teheuti for taking the initiative, and thank you all for caring so much about the group study idea. I apologize for my lack of involvement, I've been sick lately, and have been online mainly in a lurking capacity. But I'm back, so that's alright.

Anyway, I'm hearing a lot of good ideas here as well as in the other thread, but also the shadow of unresolved past tensions. Heaven knows the whole "intuitive vs esoteric" debate has been hashed out here in the past, and I have no wish to revisit those times. While I can't dictate terms for discussion, I can offer my "legal" opinion. The last thing we want is to have a good idea derailed by arguments we can already foresee arising, and have already arisen in the other thread.

Firstly, free-associative posts cannot be removed, and there is no reason why they would be. Everyone has a right to post, and I can't even claim that my own kabbalistic musings are any better or more accurate, although they are without a doubt more pretentious. In addition, it is, among other aims, exactly those people who know nothing about a subject but want to learn about it that a study is geared at. Students at all levels should be welcome to contribute and learn, even if their expertise isn't in obscure esoteric literature. This does not mean that more advanced students would find that such a study offers them nothing, I do not want that either. However, a compromise should be found.

Also, suggesting that some posts not be allowed implies someone would be policing and removing those posts, and that someone would be me. That's not how things work. ;)

Secondly, study groups need not have official sanction. Working with the mods is both useful and recommended but not always necessary, as anyone can post what they want, where and when it is appropriate. I myself raised the question of a group not as a mod but as a regular user. If the group takes off but it isn't what someone specifically wants to study, I see no reason why there has to be only one group, feel free to post about what you want, and I have faith that people will join in. Of course, if it gets to competing study groups about the same thing that would be ridiculous, but I myself would enjoy more than one group. If you have any doubts about a group you wish to open, feel free to ask.

I have not voted in the poll in the interest of, well, disinterest, but if I may suggest something, a group study of the chapters on the Trumps, both chapters together (the simple explanations at the beginning of the book and the more occult meanings later on), since that might be relatively fun and educational, as well as light. Not everything has to be heavy, and we can have some fun. And why not have fun? I myself have got the Book of Thoth group to handle, as well as mod stuff as well as life as well as my own personal Tarot studies, so a Trumps study would suit me very well. Keep in mind that although I call a study of the PKT Trumps "light," this isn't to suggest the study would be shallow or meaningless. I'm simply saying that we all know the Trumps in some fashion, and such a study would be readily accessible, even if the conversation veers into deeper esoteric waters.

Also, I believe that at this point doing the whole book is needlessly ambitious, and it is better to start light and see how things get rolling. It is best not to look too far ahead, especially before a single study group thread has been posted. We also aren't under any obligation to tackle the entire thing in one go. While I understand that some members may prefer to take on the entire thing, I think we should also realistically evaluate how viable such a study would be in terms of participation, posting, etc. Although the world wouldn't end if the group fizzled out, it would still be a shame if that happened because of a surfeit of ambition.

Since we can decide on guidelines for our group, I suggest we concentrate less on the deck, but more on the book, although they are (obviously) connected. Free interpretations would be welcome, but posts would have to stay on-topic, relating at least in some way to the quoted text. I feel this would be both inclusive as well as structured enough to make most people happy. This is not in the interest of "idolizing" Waite, as someone here suggested, nor is it meant to enforce rigidity, but merely to add structure and cohesion to the study. The popularity and ubiquity of the deck seem to suggest some structuring of a study is needed. Of course, a certain amount of flexibility will be given, but the general aim would be to base posts on the text in a general fashion. Normal ATF rules would of course apply; stay on topic, be respectful, etc.

I'm not making a decree here, just making a suggestion and dealing with some backlog. :)
 

Abrac

I'd be for starting a group with those of us who voted for Mary's #2 option, not to say others aren't welcome to participate. There seems to be enough of us and we know what we want, so why not get the ball rolling? :)