Greenwood & Blake "Hanged Man"

I thought I'd share this little observation outside the IDS realm!

The cards below are the "Blasted Oak (Greenwood) and Reversal (Blake) - Both have connections to the traditional Hanged Man. Now look at the image and tell me they are not similar... Look at the legs and feet and the directionality of the body... The original art this is based on is Blake's from the Book of Urizen.

There are a few things I have learned that I will be posting in the study groups for each deck, but, Chesca Potter (Greenwood) herself gives some insight. Her description of the Blasted Oak is "A green figure is liberated from their bonds by the force of lightening..." The Blasted Oak is in relation to the "Fives" - Power, Ecstasy, Frustration, and Endurance - all features of the experience of dualism.

Blake's Urizen is like the Gnostic demi-urge and the Fall or separation from Eternity comes before his act of creation of this world. His desire was to create a Law in opposition to the Eternals - dualism. The chains of materialism and reason follow - much as they do in the Tarot itself in the traditional "Devil" card.

The image has been described as both the Fall and Urizen passing through the new element of air seen as the clouds he is grasping. The Blake suit of 'Science' primarily draws its images from the book of Urizen.

These decks are on almost opposite poles, their common feature being that they are 'visionary'. I find it stunning that a 'pre-Celtic' deck would borrow from Blake. I'd love to hear other ideas!

When I was looking for the Blake text as background for my Greenwood IDS, I found a handful of different versions of the original painting (from different printings of the book) of the Blake Tarot's Reversal/Greenwood's Blasted Oak image.

#1
#2
#3
#4
#5

The index for the books is here. The entire text of the poem, together with images can be found here.

ETA: Would you PM Sulis so she can link this thread to the Greenwood study group?

I also wanted to note that the Reversal card from the Blake Tarot seems to be the equivalent to the Hanged Man, whereas the Greenwood's Blasted Oak is a blend of both Hanged Man and Tower (there is another card called "Reflection" that is related but not equivalent to the Hanged Man in the Greenwood). Therefore, the Greenwood seems to link back to Blake's poem in a way (from what little I grasped of it by quickly scanning across the page). I find that significant, and not just because the pose of the figure is similar to the traditional Hanged Man. (Not sure if my explanation makes any sense...)

Copy "G" (#5) is the most polished. My book is of the "D" copy and several of the images are far less refined. This thread should probably link to both the Greenwood and the Blake - especially with Cat*'s links!

Cat* - Yes! It took me a couple of readings of your post - but I see what you mean... The Tower element also plays into the Urizen story because he was 'cast out'.

Oh - and Sulis is notified...

Bat Chicken said:

Cat* - Yes! It took me a couple of readings of your post - but I see what you mean... The Tower element also plays into the Urizen story because he was 'cast out'.

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That's what I meant.

Bat Chicken said:

Oh - and Sulis is notified...

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Thanks! I didn't want to be the only one to pester her with Greenwood study group PMs.

From the Blasted Oak Study thread - but a little of topic (IMHO)and so better here:

Bat Chicken said:

I thought I'd add this here since it might be relevant... (from the IDS thread)

I ran across a Creation Myth by someone calling themselves a Siberian shaman/teacher living n the U.S. I am afraid I don't know anything about them - perhaps someone knows? Anyway, this creation myth has similar elements to Blake's 'Urizen into the Void' and that element of creation/destruction seen in the Blasted Oak. The card, interestingly, uses Blake's falling/creating Urizen artwork as a foundation. I'll include a link here for the sake of interest. http://www.shamanic.net/index.php/a...animal-brothers I am hoping somebody with more knowledge than I can jump in here and follow these threads and perhaps offer a good theory as to why Chesca used so much of Blake's painting.

There is a thread for comparison of the artwork directly for anyone interested: http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=132233

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Dear Bat Chicken:
I had a looooook at the website and the legend you referred to.
I personally have never heard of the person, but that does not mean anything. There is a lot of shaman/ tourism to Siberia these days and some people come back highly inspired and also some teachers moved to the West to have a better life.
The legend I find a little strange, as it featured animals that one normally does not see TOGETHER in a legend form the Turkic or any of the Mongolian tribes.
Brother Eagle however is featured and addressed as such all over Siberia.
There are many other tribes further North, but the spiritual ways are all quite similar and aspects of one tribe’s myth often intermingle with that of a neighbouring one....
What strikes me as od is that thing about GRANDFATHER Fire. Our tribe, all other Turkic tribes and also the Mongolian tribes see Fire as Female and the Spirit of Fire is - in Buriat- “Bayan golum Ee’y” and for us Ee’ren Gol iakan who is female and lives in ”Hoom ber Ool”the Center of the World and emerges in our fire in the Ger (Jurt)...
Grandfather fire however -??? That reminds me of some Native American inspiered New Age things......
I am not sure, if that helps any in your explorations....

BUT: What conundrum has a person to solve, ifff she/ he teaches Siberian ways over here where the First Nations People would "jump down your throat" by the very mention of a "Grandmother Fire "...... even when just telling a story.....

I always make sure the First Nations here KNOW and understand where my teachings come from and how they are similar - or different from theirs -
- AND New Age eclectisism....

I'll only link to this post because it touches on possible connection between the resurgence of Druidism and Blake's connection to it, evident in Blake's Jerusalem, along with the 'lost tribe of Israel' theory that seems to have seeped possibly into both the Greenwood and in Blake's work. See the post here for the details.

Bat Chicken said:

I'll only link to this post because it touches on possible connection between the resurgence of Druidism and Blake's connection to it, evident in Blake's Jerusalem, along with the 'lost tribe of Israel' theory that seems to have seeped possibly into both the Greenwood and in Blake's work. See the post here for the details.

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Nice post. Thank you!!!
In most ancient cultures, we find common motifs, which lead us to a common origin of root crops. In cultures of the Druids, Buddhists and even Muslims, there is a common idea of life death and resurrection. As well as a card of the Hanged Man in any deck symbolizes the motive of the Christian idea of redemption.



The main character of Blake's story Jerusalem is the Urizen.

Urizen is the both Almighty God, (reminding Jehovah), and enslaved person at the same time, he is brains itself - powerful and a limited at the same time, cognitive-destructive power of consciousness. The person who uses his power, and resists it at the same time.

Does not it remind you anyone?

http://s005.radikal.ru/i211/1002/12/327069f7fd46.jpg

And this is the Blake's evolution. The picture of the transition time.

First:
http://s002.radikal.ru/i199/1002/fd/610208e76aa3.jpg

Second:
http://s002.radikal.ru/i197/1002/d7/e17cd59f4f82.jpg

Third:
http://s005.radikal.ru/i212/1002/bb/d4594263fb99.jpg

Fourth:
http://s005.radikal.ru/i210/1002/39/7f3632dd502f.jpg

Fifth:
http://s001.radikal.ru/i194/1002/97/67deda513415.jpg

The first picture of Urizen - "I work upwards into the future".
How does he works? He sat down dramatically - from which his bread bisected and took off and tufts of hair on his head, he waved his hands. Many movements and all without achievements. He works with the help of his thought. This dark green anguish around him, which he does not see, flown away with thought ...

Than we see that the man sitting in a pose of Roden's Thinker, has a chicken head.
Chicken brains of humanity who freshets "to win the New Jerusalem through "mental fight" ... the great city of civilization, reason and the Arts". No wonder with the help of his eyes, suffering from blindness, he looks at the setting sun, and no city behind him, no emptiness, like on the picture of Kramskoy "Jesus in desert".

it is Blake's finale of the Enlightenment, ending in rivers of blood. Blake's theory of transformation of the human being from Enlightenment times to Romantism, by means of bible theory of death and resurrection of Christ, the human circle of life, which is constantly updated. When humanity reaches its highest development, it is destroyed, the world is updated and published in their original position.

"Perfect of the whole of Eden", personified in the figure of the only Original Man, followed by "His fall in the division, and His resurrection in the whole".

What is division?
If you look at our Oak man's hands. You can see that his right hand is with 2 fingers and right hand with 5 fingers. 2 of wands and 5 of wands.

2 of wands gives us the person who has his own ambitions and who forced to seek compromise with other people who also have their goals and ambitions. 5 of wands gives us the struggle.
It means the struggle of opposites between mind and soul, this is the card of CHOISE.
Without opposites there is no movement forward "and" Opposites create what Christians call Good and Evil. Indeed, it is the energy generated tension between opposites, and moves the entire development, creation, creativity.

BUT.... hands and fingers turned down. It means we have 2 and 5 are RESERVED.

it means.... that person is not able himself be responsible for his actions and make the right decisions. He is not able to make a choice, his weakness takes him apart from the struggle. His life has become fixed, sleepy and no way can be seen.
And the only outer influence of some external factors (stress, a revolution in society), which struck him as a lightning strike, struck him from his usual state, his value system will be upside down, created a revolution in consciousness and make him see the world differently, forced to take Finally the right decision.

If you see the head of Oak man is sparkling like fire. it is a revolution in consciousness, the brain begins to madly to work, the idea takes clarity, and man is capable of constructive thought and action. He does not dangle a puppet any more, he is a man of action, brain is stimulated.


What about OAK itself???
As to Druid mythology Oak is the one of the main trees, it is Tree of Life.

The word "OAK" from Celtic language means "THE DOOR". Door - a symbol of the beginning or the end, birth or death. Symbol of life cycles.

Oak is very solid tree. It is impossible to be bent or broken. it is very good association with Hanged Man, who is always restricted in his movements.

But the only energy is able to destroy it is lightning. Never stay under the oak on rainy day.

But Druids made an amulets from the cork of burnt Oak, suffered from lightning. They believed it will protect them from lighting.
They knew that LIGHTNING WILL NEVER STRUCK THE SAME PLACE TWICE.

It is the same we say: "do not step on the same rake twice".

It means that person must learn from all that has happened, and once survived a disappointment in his life, he will never repeat the past experience, he will become older and wiser. If he clash the same problem as before again, he will act different way to solve this problem, and he will not feel more pain as before.

Surja76 said:

What is division?
If you look at our Oak man's hands. You can see that his right hand is with 2 fingers and right hand with 5 fingers. 2 of wands and 5 of wands.

2 of wands gives us the person who has his own ambitions and who forced to seek compromise with other people who also have their goals and ambitions. 5 of wands gives us the struggle.
It means the struggle of opposites between mind and soul, this is the card of CHOISE.
Without opposites there is no movement forward "and" Opposites create what Christians call Good and Evil. Indeed, it is the energy generated tension between opposites, and moves the entire development, creation, creativity.

BUT.... hands and fingers turned down. It means we have 2 and 5 are RESERVED.

it means.... that person is not able himself be responsible for his actions and make the right decisions. He is not able to make a choice, his weakness takes him apart from the struggle. His life has become fixed, sleepy and no way can be seen.
And the only outer influence of some external factors (stress, a revolution in society), which struck him as a lightning strike, struck him from his usual state, his value system will be upside down, created a revolution in consciousness and make him see the world differently, forced to take Finally the right decision.

If you see the head of Oak man is sparkling like fire. it is a revolution in consciousness, the brain begins to madly to work, the idea takes clarity, and man is capable of constructive thought and action. He does not dangle a puppet any more, he is a man of action, brain is stimulated.

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Great post, Surja! Thank you!!
I have the Complete Illustrated Books and the images are incredible...
So I have certainly become aware of the first bits in relation to my study of Blake and the Blake Tarot and have been posting it in other places, but I completely missed this! Brilliant observation...!

Surja76 said:

What about OAK itself???
As to Druid mythology Oak is the one of the main trees, it is Tree of Life.

The word "OAK" from Celtic language means "THE DOOR". Door - a symbol of the beginning or the end, birth or death. Symbol of life cycles.

Oak is very solid tree. It is impossible to be bent or broken. it is very good association with Hanged Man, who is always restricted in his movements.

But the only energy is able to destroy it is lightning. Never stay under the oak on rainy day.

But Druids made an amulets from the cork of burnt Oak, suffered from lightning. They believed it will protect them from lighting.
They knew that LIGHTNING WILL NEVER STRUCK THE SAME PLACE TWICE.

It is the same we say: "do not step on the same rake twice".

Click to expand...

This needs to be in the Ogham thread if it isn't already... I hope you will post it or allow me to! There is huge significance in relation to the Hermit & World cards in the Greenwood which literally have a door in the oak.

Bat Chicken said:

Great post, Surja! Thank you!!
I have the Complete Illustrated Books and the images are incredible...
So I have certainly become aware of the first bits in relation to my study of Blake and the Blake Tarot and have been posting it in other places, but I completely missed this! Brilliant observation...!

Click to expand...

Hi Bat Chicken!

It was funny. Frankly speaking I have not understood first what does it mean "Blake's Oak". More over I have thought it is something of my lack of language experience And this card was not clear for me....
I was not able to compare it with Willian Blake at all... Shame on me
When I have seen your post I was surprised, it was really value thing to understand everything. Thank you very much!

Bat Chicken said:

This needs to be in the Ogham thread if it isn't already... I hope you will post it or allow me to! There is huge significance in relation to the Hermit & World cards in the Greenwood which literally have a door in the oak.

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Sure I will continue our conversation with pleasure. I have a great interest in Greenwood story, your knowledge, thoughts and mentions are brilliant. I value them too much. Thank you! Lets go ahead!

Awesome!
I will be away for a few days... but you have mind going! This is going to be fun.