Basic question on how planetary transits affect our natal chart

Hi everybody,

So I know that you would have to look at where a transiting planet falls in your natal chart to be able to tell where it's affecting you, for example, the upcoming Mars retrograde in Sagittarius will naturally fall on my 10th house as I'm a Pisces rising, and also 2nd house (where my natal aries is) and 9th house (where my natal Scorpio is). Right?

My question though is whether or not it will also affect the house where my NATAL MARS (or whatever planet we might be talking about) is. My natal mars is on my 6th house near the 7th house cusp, does that mean that the TRANSITING retrograde will be affecting that area too?

Also, I understand how reading daily horoscopes based off what our Ascendant works since that information alone tells us what signs are ruling the rest of the houses, but what are the "normal" SUN SIGN horoscopes we see everywhere based off?

Please let me know any of if my questions aren't clear.

Thank you so much!



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ChelseaWaters said:

Hi everybody,

So I know that you would have to look at where a transiting planet falls in your natal chart to be able to tell where it's affecting you, for example, the upcoming Mars retrograde in Sagittarius will naturally fall on my 10th house as I'm a Pisces rising, and also 2nd house (where my natal aries is) and 9th house (where my natal Scorpio is). Right?

My question though is whether or not it will also affect the house where my NATAL MARS (or whatever planet we might be talking about) is. My natal mars is on my 6th house near the 7th house cusp, does that mean that the TRANSITING retrograde will be affecting that area too?

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There are at least two distinct ways of looking at Transits. The first is looking at the transits of natal planets by currently transiting planets. This view tends to see no effects unless two planets are involved. So Mars going Retrograde in Sagittarius will have no affect unless it is in aspect to a natal planet including itself). This approach would also limit the range of effectiveness of the Transit, to a few degrees before and after the natal planet.

The second and older way of looking at Transits, is simply the movement of a planet through a sign. So Mars transiting through Sagittarius will have an effect. It might be more subtle than the transit of a planet but it is there. So Signs that lie in aspect to Sagittarius may also receive some influence. This view is based on Mars casting its rays outwards in the seven directions (two sextiles, two trines, two squares and an opposition). Most modern writers wouldn't see Pisces as being in any way influenced by Mars in Sagittarius unless there is a natal planet in Sagittarius and only then when Mars comes into orb.

The two approaches aren't mutually exclusive. Hellenistic and early Medieval Astrologers, would see Pisces being generally affected in the example above but the effect would be at its most intense when the rays from Mars hit a planet in Pisces.

Generally effected would depend on the transiting planet involved and the aspect that the ray is trying to form. Mars and Saturn were seen as naturally tending to represent difficulties, restrictions, things going wrong. If they were in Square or Opposition, then the affect of their transit would tend to be experienced as difficulties. Jupiter and Venus generally have a constructive or beneficial effect and their rays will tend to be supportive, especially when attempting to form Trines or Sextiles. Where no other planet is involved the most that you might identify is a general background tendency.

As strictly speaking, to transit means to move through, the older meaning is completely correct it's just that both approaches recognse that transits without aspecting another planet are weaker than transits which do result in aspects to other planets.

You are right, the area of life affected would be either the area of life denoted by the sign Mars is transiting, or the area of life of denoted by the houses occupied by the signs aspected. Where two or more planets are aspected, then the areas of life that they rule will also be affected.

The house occupied by natal Mars will be affected when transiting Mars aspects it either by sign (weak) or by degree (strong)

ChelseaWaters said:

Also, I understand how reading daily horoscopes based off what our Ascendant works since that information alone tells us what signs are ruling the rest of the houses, but what are the "normal" SUN SIGN horoscopes we see everywhere based off?

Click to expand...

Sun sign horoscopes are cast on the assumption (mostly wrong) that you were born when your Sun sign was rising. So if you were born with the Sun in Aries, the sign of Aries would be your Ascending sign.

Sun Sign Horoscopes use Whole Sign Houses. So the whole of Aries is your first house and so on, round to Pisces which is your twelfth house.

Now such horoscopes actually do use transits in the old sense of a planet moving through a sign (and therefore a house, using Whole Sign Houses). So when your horoscope might predict something good in terms of romance for Aries because Jupiter is transiting your fifth house, It basically means Jupiter is in Leo and being a benefic, Jupiter brings good thing to that area of your life.

Note, these horoscopes have no idea where your natal planets are, other than the Sun was in Aries (or whatever sign you are reading), so all Transits have to be in the original meaning, rather than the later meaning of transiting planet aspecting a natal planet.

ChelseaWaters said:

Hi everybody,

So I know that you would have to look at where a transiting planet falls in your natal chart to be able to tell where it's affecting you, for example, the upcoming Mars retrograde in Sagittarius will naturally fall on my 10th house as I'm a Pisces rising, and also 2nd house (where my natal aries is) and 9th house (where my natal Scorpio is). Right?

My question though is whether or not it will also affect the house where my NATAL MARS (or whatever planet we might be talking about) is. My natal mars is on my 6th house near the 7th house cusp, does that mean that the TRANSITING retrograde will be affecting that area too?

Click to expand...

Other than by an aspect to your natal Mars, transiting Mars could also affect him indirectly by forming an aspect to his dispositor. An example would be having your Mars in Aquarius, and the "Lord" of that sign, Uranus, around 9° Libra. With transiting Mars currently in a sextile to Uranus, he would affect everything that is connected to Aquarius in that chart, including natal Mars with his house position.

Hope this helps.

I'm a skeptic and to me it will work only if it's three times confirmed. Anything. Returns, transits, lunations, eclipses, progressions, directions, you name it. If I don't see it three times, I don't even bother. The only transit I have seen working confirmed twice was Mars on Mars, plus heavily aspected solar return Mars, by rulers of same houses ruled by natal Mars. But my Sun is ruled by Mars and Pluto, so to me he is indeed important. Only transit working on its own - Saturn. This one is truly producing events. For real. IMO

P.S. If I add time lords to the equation the Mars transits were still three times confirmed.

I don't treat Transits on their own as automatically indicating something. I prefer to see several indicators pointing in the same direction or the transit chart clearly fitting into the current Time Lord period. I generally ignore transits unless there's something more fundamental going on. In which case they become useful for timing events.

Yes, a transit is not always a 'happening.'

I suspect that for most people, they find more transits having no apparent effect then they find transits clearly associated with an effect-event. Part of the answer to this lies in the fact that 1) most people relay on the basic natal chart as a reference point, and 2) ignore the presence of many, many other cycles that they are sensitive to to in addition to transits over natal chart planets.

You ask what these other cycles are? I couldn't begin to list them all, but I can several major ones.
1) Solar Returns and the MC-Solar cycle that begins with your birth chart and cycles through and connects every solar return. This cycle progresses for your whole life, and when it indicates a chart angle moving to connect with a natal or transiting planet that you are senitive to, things tend to happen. This is an event-attitude-situational cycle.
2) Lunar Returns and the use of a diurnal cycle to advance the angles each day. This cycle ends each month and a new, discontinuous cycle starts with the next lunar return. This is an emotional, reaction-to-change cycle.
3) Natal-to-diurnal cycle. This progresses the natal cycle at the rate of the MC's daily advance and moves the natal angles through the entire natal chart over the course of a year. This is a personal solar cycle chart. It shows where your intentions, best interests and true self tends to operate as well as any daily challenges that you will need to deal with.
4) My current work concerns the use of t/Moon to/opposite n/Sun Return charts. These display the changes that come into our life and the logical and reactive way we seek to find a new balance point. These are two-week cycle charts that are advanced diurnally to show our flow of life on a day-to-day basis. These are far superior to lunar returns.
5) Any planet in the natal chart can be brought into focus by using a t/Moon-to-that-n/Planet. For instance, on my blog site right now I am using t/Moon-to-n/Mars to review the actions of a man who killed his ex-girlfriend and put her body in a steamer-trunk where it remained in his closet for almost a decade before being discovered. What drives a person to do that?

The use of other cycles such as a Mars cycle, a Jupiter or Saturn transit to the natal counterpart, will take years to follow, as would the nodal cycle. When years are involved instead of days, it is necessary to view those charts as "phases of change" or "development" cycles. One has to look for contact to natal planets which are married up to transiting contacts at the same time. These may not mark events but changes in attitude or social trends that contribute to other factors in your life.

It is important to note that whatever chart you use, angular contacts (MC, Asc, IC, Desc) add great power to transits. Keep in mind, that cyclic charts have angles that advance and the contact of an angle coming to a planet can be very meaningful. I hope this opens your imagination to deeper areas of astrology.

I understood most of that but not this part

"
3) Natal-to-diurnal cycle. This progresses the natal cycle at the rate of the MC's daily advance and moves the natal angles through the entire natal chart over the course of a year. This is a personal solar cycle chart. It shows where your intentions, best interests and true self tends to operate as well as any daily challenges that you will need to deal with.
"

What exactly is this natal cycle? What is doing the cycling? and what is the beginning/end point of a cycle? Thanks in advance

The Durnal cycle.

"Diurnal" or daily cycle. Each day the earth rotates. The Sun and the MC (at noon) advance a bit less than one degree, though the amount varies and the two advance at different times by slightly different amounts. This relates to astronomical factors. These measurements can be used in differing ways depending upon the charting methods you choose to use for various results.

In Diurnal charting, one starts with the birth chart for the birth date and birth time. Once this chart is displayed on a computer screen, one can 'advance' this chart day by day or for any number of days forward from the birth date. This is done by retaining the birth time but by changing the date. Consider carefully what changes.

1) The MC and the Asc. move forward in zodiac position. The MC move about (but not exactly) one degree per day. The Asc. moves more or less, the amount being affected by latitude distortion for the area on the globe the chart is calculated for.

2) The Sun moves forward about a degree for each day of chart advance. The Sun's movement, relative to the MC's advance, can vary significantly depending upon the season of the year. This is due to the equation of time. Most students have heard of signs of short ascension and of long ascension. The tilt of the Earth, the position of the Earth in its orbit and many other factors introduce small variable in rotation and apparent advance of the Sun on a daily basis. For practical purposes, let us just say that everything move a bit less than, but close to, a degree per day.

3) The Moon and the planets move at various rates at any given time. When you diurnally advance the chart to a given date, the angles advance accordingly and each planet assumes its correct transiting position for that day.

4) If looking at a natal and a transiting bi-wheel chart you can see the effects of the advancing diurnal chart relative to the natal chart.

The INTERPRETIVE process depends upon the practices of the astrologer. Typically, the Sun's advance through the seasons is visually and understandably predictable. Do we focus on 3rd house issues only when we are in that period some two to three months after our birthday? Of course not. So? I think back to what Jeff Mayo of London's Faculty of Astrological Studies told me --- "the Sun is an integrator." When the Sun traverses the 3rd house of the diurnal chart it's communications focus will show itself on those days when it aspects and permits contacted planets to express their natal and inherent energies in which they combine the 3rd house and their residential house's energies and focus.

The Moon, of course, paints our emotional reactions across our chests and environment. We seem to rise and fall like the tides as the Moon quickly and shortly aspects planets all around our natal chart and the transiting sky.

In summary, the Diurnal chart relates to the daily rotation of the Earth, to the daily changes in our life. The natal patterns always influence the transiting expression, but the transits add the different spices of life to that day's receipt.

Thank You dadsnook

Very enlightening.

Two questions if I may. In your first book you select the Solar Return Sun as the starting (and end) point of a cycle, and the transiting Sun (also the progressed MC) as the entity that traverses the cycle. In your second, the natal Sun is the start and end point of the cycle, and the transiting Moon is the entity that moves from this starting point and moves around the zodiac.

(1) so now one has two solid methodologies for prediction. Do you advise using both? Or sticking with one?

(2) The larger idea that spans both books seem to be one of using a two step process for a cycle- (1) taking one point as the starting and ending point of a cycle(natal Sun in both books) - call this the 'fixed point' , and then choosing a transiting planet (Sun - and progressed MC?- in the first book and Moon in the second) as the 'clock hand' that moves around the circle, starting and ending at this fixed point.

The nature of the chart is then determined by the essential meanings of the fixed point and the 'clock hand'. so Tr Moon to Natal Moon would then be about external events (Tr MO) impinging on emotional state (Natal Mo). etc.

This is ****brilliant****, and would seem to be a key to interpret **all** cycles. I repeat . Brilliant.

And now my question.

Do you think taking the ASC as the starting and end point of the cycle and the transiting Sun as the moving 'clock hand' could work for prediction? In other words do you think Transiting Sun on ASC charts can be used for prediction?

I've been looking at these and noticing some amazing synchronicity with events in my life, but obviously I don't have the theoretical sophistication to nail down what is (or at least seems to be) happening.

Just thought I'd ask, Thanks in advance.

Some comments

Question One: Each approach (Solar Returns and progressed daily angle charts, using the advancing angles, planets) and (t/Moon-to-n/Sun Returns) has a different portrayal of life and events. The Solar Return focuses upon one's intent, will and direction in life --- our conscious conduct through our personality and character. The daily charts using the moving angles and contacting planets are highly event oriented and also show our view of life and how we wish to conduct life. The t/Moon-to-n/Sun Returns depict the conflict between our conscious intent and life-style (the natal Sun) and the changes that impinge upon us (transiting Moon) in various ways as each day goes by. Dealing with this Sun-Moon combination we can see how we want to balance life and how we might re-balance it when changes occur.

Question Two: A cycle has to have a 'starting point.' Relative to this starting point (we can use the natal Sun) we can watch the transiting Sun which we will treat as the moving agent or change in the Solar Cycle. So, we have a fixed point and a moving point. Cycles have a repetitive feature, and somewhat constant rate of change. We can use any anchor point and choose any moving element in theory. What is crucial is that the chosen cycle and its elements have a resonance with our life and feelings and actions. So care must be taken in which components to use in cyclic astrology --- and how we are to apply them in a helpful manner.

Question: Your comments are really relating to the Diurnal chart based on the natal chart. Each year on your birthday when the t/Sun returns to its natal position, those positions are used within the year's Diurnal chart. The Diurnal chart has your natal angles and natal planets. The Diurnal chart also has your birthday's transiting planets. We place all of this into a double-wheel chart. We then advance that chart day by day, changing the transiting portion of the chart by a day, leaving the chart's time as it is. This advances the angles by almost a degree per day, and also places the transiting planets in their proper place relative to the natal chart positions. So, the Ascendant is the starting point and the end point of the year's Diurnal cycle.

As I accumulate experience with these charts, I tend to presently favor the t/Moon-n/Sun Returns. They show more changes and possibilities, they reflect both the intent and the changes that affect life. I also use t/Moon-to-n/Planet Returns. These have different uses which apply to some situations but are not as universal as the moon-sun returns.