Pluto The planet of tranformation ?

MCsea said:

Well I suppose it can reside differntly in differnt people cause I beleive in re-generation, past and future lives - no complete end..
Symbol of Scorpio Transformative Regenerative Self, maybe I just need some hope..

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I was talking about the destructive side of Pluto, Pluto also rules transformation, like in the peaceful use of nuclear energy, and it also rules rebirth, where the body turns to dust but the spirit lives on in another form. Everything has two sides to it, a positive and a negative, even Pluto.

Uranus and Pluto

It can be helpful to consider the world situation at the time each of these planets was discovered.

The US and France were engaged in revolution, a process of rebellion against authority, a push to recognize the value of individuals, a need to find new ways of living and progressing --- all of this when Uranus was discovered.

When Pluto was discovered, a different form of unrest was evident. There were powerful forces taking control through hidden means: Germany was politically being subverted, the US banking system was destroyed, mob-gangs were using the laws of prohibition to take control of politics and the making of money.

Just of some thoughts. Dave

dadsnook2000 said:

It can be helpful to consider the world situation at the time each of these planets was discovered.

The US and France were engaged in revolution, a process of rebellion against authority, a push to recognize the value of individuals, a need to find new ways of living and progressing --- all of this when Uranus was discovered.

When Pluto was discovered, a different form of unrest was evident. There were powerful forces taking control through hidden means: Germany was politically being subverted, the US banking system was destroyed, mob-gangs were using the laws of prohibition to take control of politics and the making of money.

Just of some thoughts. Dave

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Thank you Dave - I gain much from your thoughts!

MARINA

Thanks, is there any positive things that can happen when pluto is present ?

Positive Pluto

Let's look at the research of Ebertin. He says that Pluto's principle represents "force majeure or providence, invisible forces or powers."

Psychological correspondences include:

(positive) The will or wish to exercise power, the manifestation of unconscious powers, ruthless frankness or candidness, the urge to influence the masses, propagandist aspirations and objectives, understanding the masses.

(negative) Ruthless use of force or coercion, inclination to incite, a fanatical zeal to state one's own doctrinal principles, to agitate, convulsions and spasms.

Biological correspondences include the collective consciousness, regeneration.

Sociological correspondences include persons who can be said to exercise a magical influence over the masses, suchas propagandists, actors, public speakers and politicians.

We have to recognize that the "Hamburg, Germany School" included many notable researchers such as Vitte and the Ebertin's (father and son) who worked with hundreds of thousands of charts and clients from the late 1800's into the middle 1900's after world war two. They popularized the mid-point system of astrology. While some of their interpretations are shaded with more dire or darker meanings, their interpretations in terms of content and range are very accurate and well founded.

So, what would we take out of this as "positive?" It depends upon the context of the person and chart of course, but I would suggest zeal, intensity, a drive to persist, unflinching determination, possibly courage, a need to succeed, amazing turns of luck and good fortune, the ability to lead others, a magnetic personality.

You may often find that those with Pluto near the ascendant degree have narrower faces than average, eyes that are intense and often closer together (which enhances the appearance of intensity) higher foreheads, hair that tends to be thinner rather than heavier-thicker, and who exhibit (when younger) quick actions, temper or frequent changes in temperament, broken sleep patterns. All of this is mitigated as they approach teen years.

As noted in an earlier post, Pluto doesn't always work smoothly when in tough aspects with Mercury and Moon -- we are talking about mixing the most personal inner planets with an impersonal outer planet -- all of which can have their own strengths that don't work well with the other's strengths. Hope this helps. Dave

Thanks Dave. I wanted to know does Pluto has any thing to do with Phones not working or people not being able to commucate? you know like blocked commucation?

For vision777

Not generally. There would have to be very specific ties to specific natal patterns. Perhaps Pluto conjunct Mars, both transiting over natal Mercury and Saturn (hearing) with a progression or two thrown in for good measure. This might signify your cell phone blowing up or something. Dave

vision777 said:

Thanks Dave. I wanted to know does Pluto has any thing to do with Phones not working or people not being able to commucate? you know like blocked commucation?

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No, that would be Mercury playing up.

I don't really think Pluto is that significant for everyone unless it figures prominately in your chart; i.e. aspecting the Sun, Moon or ASC. I have Pluto conjunct ASC, and honestly, I sometimes think of it as a curse. I hate it at times! yes it makes one very intense and deep, ect., but it also is impossible for you to take life superficially.... always some crisis going on, whether its an external crisis, an emotional crisis, an identity crisis. Its like... enough already, give me a f*cking break! can I just enjoy life without all of this 'transforming' sh*t? nooo... also, to make matters worse I am currently going through transit Pluto square natal Venus/Mars. eek! sucky.

And you know whats funny, the card I drew for 'What is my souls purpose for this lifetime' was Death... I associate that card alot with Pluto: transformation, change, ending, rebirth.

If you really want to know more about Pluto in depth, I highly suggest reading donna cunningham's book 'Healing Pluto Problems'. It really goes in depth about alot of issues associated with pluto... violence, sex, death, mental illness, ect. also, another good book on the subject would be 'Pluto: the Evolutionary journey of the soul' by jeff green.

just my 2 cents

pluto conjunct ascendant pain in the jacksie lol but i think a sign that you have something important to do in this lifetime for the world - you dont think you can do it but you do it without realising - like you are an agent of change unconsciously - if you get conscious of it - well woooooohoooo then you get to enjoy it but when you don't know it can be hell

hope that made some sense

i try to think of this planet as a true friend, just like saturn and work with it hard as it can get and despite the reputation they are both VERY forgiving