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Spreads For Thoth and Use of EDs

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It was implied in fyreflye's post.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fyreflye
Since the only spread Crowley himself recommended is so complex that nobody uses it you can make up any that work.
As per usual, the Opening of the Key was actually a Golden Dawn technique that Crowley published as if it were his own.

Many Golden Dawn members did not do all the stages at one time. For instance, W. B. Yeats and Annie Horniman generally just used the first stage (the cards spread in an arch) as an entire reading in itself. You'll find examples in my book _Women of the Golden Dawn_. In fact, any of the steps can be used as a complete reading in themselves. The techniques are perhaps best developed by getting to know one of the steps thoroughly before going on to the rest.

Triads were determined by the counting system and then the cards were again read in pairs - using EDs.

While there is plenty written on EDs online, few people go to the source in Book T - published by Robert Wang and also available in the Complete Golden Dawn System of Magic. Reading and rereading Mathers' examples (and laying them out for yourself) is the best way to understand the system. For instance, there is a contemporary trend of stressing the missing element(s) - as if that indicated what is needed in the situation. This is not found anywhere in the original instructions.

Another good source for EDs is Paul Hughes-Barlow's lessons:
http://www.supertarot.co.uk/lessons/beg.htm
Also recommended is his book: _Tarot and the Magus: Opening the Key to Divination, Magick and the Holy Guardian Angel_.

Liz Hazel's book _Tarot Decoded: Understanding and using dignities and correspondences_ is also excellent in that you learn how EDs fit within a much larger concept of correspondences - if you want to read Tarot are a truly sophisticated level using both astrology and the elements.

Mary
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I found this thread as I was searching for Thoth spreads, so I thought I'd resurrect it, especially as the link to Elemental Dignities has cleared up a lot for me....
http://web.archive.org/web/200112020...nter/edig.html

I have been using the 15 card spread, with great success, but I still find it too cumbersome for routine every day use - I also find the cabalistic spread useful, but again, large. These spreads are great, don't get me wrong - but, as a relative neophyte - it takes me several hours to decode and comprehend what the cards are saying - especially when taking ED's into account.
Not having much success with small spreads.......but then, maybe the Thoth isn't 'meant' for trivia and minutiae!! (**smile**)........has anyone had any luck with smaller spreads (except 3-cards of the day and past/present/future type???) ?

Thanks!
Wolfie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfmaiden58
Not having much success with small spreads.......but then, maybe the Thoth isn't 'meant' for trivia and minutiae!! (**smile**)........has anyone had any luck with smaller spreads (except 3-cards of the day and past/present/future type???) ?
The key to interpreting a Thoth spread correctly is not in the spread but in the care with which you frame the question. If you frame the question narrowly and precisely enough three to five cards (or even just one) will give you an answer. Adding more and more cards to a poorly conceived question is like an astrologer adding harmonics and midpoints to a chart that she can't otherwise make sense of.
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Hi Fyreflye......thanks for responding......I do know what you mean - it's sort of like asking 'am I going to die?'.....well, duh.....!! LOL!
I think you're absolutely right in framing the question correctly though.....and I'm especially finding the Thoth VERY direct.....almost brutally so.....as if to say 'here's the answer to the question you should have asked, but were afraid to do so.....' - ( going on the assumption of....ie. if you don't want to know the answer, don't ask the question....but this deck doesn't really seem to 'care' whether you want to know or not.......it tells it like it is - and this takes some getting used to...).
So I guess I'll be sticking to 3-card mottos for the day, for a while at least.....they're the ones that seem to make most sense right now, at this early stage anyways!....especially when bringing ED's into the picture too - it's easy to lose sight of the intuitive aspects of the cards, when you're prepossessed with precise and accurate definitions!

Thanks again,
wolfie
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Nearly always use cross spread, if not clear I may go to Tree of Life Spread.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fyreflye
The key to interpreting a Thoth spread correctly is not in the spread but in the care with which you frame the question. If you frame the question narrowly and precisely enough three to five cards (or even just one) will give you an answer. Adding more and more cards to a poorly conceived question is like an astrologer adding harmonics and midpoints to a chart that she can't otherwise make sense of.

In my opinion, you couldn't be farther from the truth. More cards expand on your answers- adding depth where there was merely an answer- giving detail where there was nothing but fuzzy blurs. Also- the formation of the question yeilds better results when broad and open ended rather than narrow and limited, as your post implies you should do.

There are a couple current discussions of the "Opening of the Key" spread around- one was called "Golden dawn Spread" or something like that, and the other was "OOTK" or "Opening of the Key" (can't remember exactly)

There is lots of good discussion in both threads (or maybe there was three threads?) about the OOTK and *variations* that are shorter and easier to deal with.

I'd find and link to the threads, but I gotta run.........


-tb
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Hi thinbuddha....thanks for your response...

You know....the more I read, especially in DuQuette, and in discussions, I'm coming to the same realisation........thinking that it's a case of the Thoth putting forward what you need to know, rather than giving definite yes/no/maybe type of answers - it isn't an 'oracle' deck, after all.....I feel that it goes so much deeper than that - the more I learn, the more I need to learn........if one wants answers to questions like 'will I meet my soulmate this year'...or 'what does this/that person think' etc.....then I feel one should read the magic 8 ball, or visit a fortune teller.........the deeper I dig, the more I feel that this is NOT what this deck is about - it's so much bigger than that......it teaches, it instructs, it guides......but it doesn't give pat answers.

wolfie
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First off, re-reading my post, I seem a little abrupt with fyreflye. I didn't mean anything personal, and didn't mean to sound so crusty- I was just trying to write my response fast and get on the road, so didn't have time to re-read it and soften the edges. All that said, I still stand by the content

Quote:
Originally Posted by thinbuddha
I'd find and link to the threads, but I gotta run.........
OK- here's a couple links:

http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread...ht=opening+key

http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread...ht=opening+key

http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread...ht=opening+key
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thinbuddha
More cards expand on your answers- adding depth where there was merely an answer- giving detail where there was nothing but fuzzy blurs.
On reflection, I agree with this. If a card seems inconclusive or vague, even after checking placements (or aspects), then I will draw more cards and lay them on the card in question to get more info. It seems to work. Also the 3 card summary at the end to see if it agrees with the reading layout (as a double check).
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