Lost Thread Up Again: The Marseilles Le Bateleur and the Ball in His Hand?

TemperanceAngel

This was one of the threads that was lost, which is annoying but I remember my question.

I was looking at an image of the Camoin Le Bateleur and wondered what the small yellow ball was in his right hand.

With all the knives on the table could it be food?

In his left hand he holds a blue pencil like object, or is it a pea shooter and a pea in his other hand? He is a trickster after all!

Hudson and kwaw and posted some great links and information in this thread and hope they will do so again :)

There was a mention of that in the older decks that the ball in his hand was actually a phallic symbol. What decks and what dates would this be?

In another Marseilles I thought I saw the ball to be blue.

Any ideas, help or links would be gratefully received thanks.
 

HudsonGray

In some decks the angle is different. He's sometimes holding it way out at the edge of his hip, and in others it's almost right there where the belly button would be. So decks do vary things a lot.

I can't remember the URL I'd posted....I'm sorry. Maybe it was from the Camoin website? I'll see if I can find something somewhere.
 

TemperanceAngel

That's it??? (and thank you Hudson) Oh come on....I know there is more information out there!
 

smleite

Well, since I started meditating on numbers, I would say that the Bateleur’s gesture, holding the baton and the ball as if he was about to pierce the latter with it, could be a representation of the fracture caused in Wholeness (the ball) by the appearance of One (a number obviously symbolized by a line, or a baton). That is, the birth of Duality. I’ll post the link to a thread where I try to explain this, if you don’t mind, ok?

http://67.19.40.82/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28304

Silvia
 

Fulgour

abracadabra

Le Bateleur is card number One, and part of the
Triad of elements with Thirteen and Twenty-One.
The ball could be symbolic of the Unity of Three.

A single ball, slipped through a tube, accomplishes
the magical trinity of the elements.

One: the ball in his hand

One and Two: first the ball is over here,
then the ball is over there

Three: the medium of conveyance is the
distance between One and Two...
Viola! Three.

>1.....3.....2<
 

tmgrl2

Jodorowsky talks of the little ball as a mini-sun representing perfection and truth, while at the same time it could be the denier
signifying that Le Bateleur is cognizant of the day-to-day necessities of living. (La Voie du Tarot

Carole Sedillot says it could be a conscious manifestation of the material. Also could represent the middle of the incarnation and also its purpose, to live in the material plane without being enslaved by it, dependednt, without being its prisoner, acting as an indispensable support toward evolution. (Ombres et Lumieres du Tarot

Klea in Au Fil d'Arcane refers to it a one of pure gold representing the Great Work, but then goes on to a discussion that no matter how pure are our intents in a world filled with things beyond our control, dualities and inner emotional troubles present themselves to us. Only after after dealing with these forces that are inferior to heavenly ones, can the internal alchemical process occur and one can perhaps then receive the Light as though the ball were a lens of diffraction.

Silvia, thanks again for your wonderful link. It seems as if the above authors hint also at the duality to come in the "two."



So , three takes...

terri
 

Rusty Neon

For what it's worth (and it's only someone's own views) ...

In his book, Paul Marteau refers to various objects on the Magician's table. As noted in the quote below, the ball-like object that the Magician is holding is a ring, according to Marteau.

Describing objects on the Magician's table, Marteau writes:

"The knife reminds us of the Sword, symbol of efforts, difficulties, battles. The pieces [of coin] represent the Coin, symbol of acquisitions and works to accomplish. The goblet takes the place of the Cup, symbol of love, the good and evil passions, and sacrifice. And finally the ring, which [the Magician] is holding in his hand, the image of the Baton, completes the four devices (i.e., symbols) of the Tarot."
 

Rusty Neon

Caveat: I mention this for completeness only and not because it's my interpretation: Some people (e.g., various people on a French-language internet tarot forum that I used to subscribe to) interpret the Magician's baton as a certain part of the male anatomy; one can see the basis of this interpretation more clearly if one looks at the baton held by the Magician in the 17th century Jean Noblet Tarot de Marseille deck; query, then, whether the ball held by the Magician represents another part of the male anatomy.

In that regard, here's a scan of the Magician card from the Noblet redrawn by JC Flornoy:

http://letarot.com/images/original_Noblet/ll_bateleur.htm
 

Parzival

Marseilles Le Bateleur

Another perspective brings in magic, not Alchemy but the performance of legerdemain. The Bateleur may be a conjuror who makes use of standard paraphernalia. After all, he stands before a conjuror's table. In his left hand is a wand, in his right a ball to be vanished or sent to an unexpected place. He is in the midst of a performance. This corresponds to the trickster aspect of Hermes or Mercury.