Marseilles La Roue de Fortune

Little Baron

Have looked around but couldn't find much ...

I am really intreagued by the creatures on this card. I really like them but at the moment, know little about them. Does anyone have any info?

I am using the Grimaud.

Yaboot
 

Fulgour

Free Will

I see badminton shuttlecocks, with a puppet on top.
The idea seems to be that predestination is a joke.
 

tmgrl2

I don't have time to translate now, but Klea in her Au Fil d'Arcane offers up twenty pages! on this card.

Rgarding the three figures, she suggests they are three phases of self:involution, cessation and evolution.

To paraphrase, she says that the one at the top, in position of "cessation," may tend to think that s(he) has reached the goal, the heavens and, therefore, believesthat things will not move.
This provides a precarious position for the other two creatures, one going up and one going down. If the top creature is fixed, then the other two "parts" of oneself will remain "fixed," like the sides of a triangle, with their roles being that of "maintaining" the balance of the wheel.

One looks like a monkey (imitator), the other like a rabbit (cowardice) and the third, on top, like a dog (resignation).

I think the suggestion is that the Wheel MUST turn in order for us to grow and remain whole and balanced.

Klea then does five pages total on EACH he three figures. Looks like an interesting read for some time in the future for me, unless someone else wishes to translate some of it.

I like some of what Silvie Simon says in The Tarot She uses the Grimaud card.

On this Wheel of Becoming, we see three animals, half-monkey, half-monster. The one on the left, dominated by his instincts and senses, descends into matter, doubtless against his will; his energy is from his animal nature. The second animal, on the right of the wheel, is conscious and intelligent, for he is yellow; he looks heavenward as he climbs up. The third, seated on top of the wheel, is man crowned, spiritual man, for he is colored blue, his wings allow him to rise, and his sword of justice is white and pure.

The Wheel symbolizes those rhythms that rule us, the world revolving, the eternal new beginning. It is the round about of the universe, with good succeeding evil, day after night, death after life, every concept bearing its converse.

There is moreabout the numbers that many would already use, the 10, and the 1+0. Of course, Fate. Change coming from decisions outside ourselves, from chance, which we may view as "good" or "bad" for us but which may not be in our best interests.

I like what Klea says about the three aspects of ourselves. It always bothered me to think of the top creature as having "arrived," with wings to allow it to soar away. I like the idea that we must remember that if the wheel doesn't turn, aspects of ourselves remain fixed and don't grow from experience.

I also like to use the image for querents of trying to stay centered in the middle where the wheel turns but the center doesn't move. Thus we can grow, if we work at balance in all aspects of our personality, even when we encounter great highs and lows in life.

terri
 

Little Baron

Thanks Terri.

That has opened it up so much more for me now.

I will go and read what you have written again now.

Cheers for that!

Yaboot
 

tmgrl2

You're welcome, Yaboot....

I am motivated to check out what Klea can say that takes five pages or more about the three figures!

terri
 

Fulgour

Doctrine of Predestination (1525)

"All things whatever arise from, and depend on, the divine appointment;
whereby it was foreordained who should receive the word of life, and who
should disbelieve it; who should be delivered from their sins, and who should
be hardened in them; and who should be justified and who should be condemned."
 

tmgrl2

Fulgour said:
Doctrine of Predestination (1525)

"All things whatever arise from, and depend on, the divine appointment;
whereby it was foreordained who should receive the word of life, and who
should disbelieve it; who should be delivered from their sins, and who should
be hardened in them; and who should be justified and who should be condemned."

Thank you, Fulgour.

I was raised in a very strict Roman Catholic tradition.

Today, simply put, I believe that "stuff happens," and that I have free will/ choice as to what I do or think about events.

M. Scott Peck has said the evil is will-full ignorance. I am coming to feel that if I make a poor choice over and over, that I will be given other opportunities to choose differently.

I also believe that once I "get it" and learn something, that it then IS and has always BEEN so, since the boundaries of time and space are human ideations.

This is my belief. I am not offering it as a doctring or response to someone else's beliefs.

terri
 

Fulgour

I'm only saying what I see in the imagery, with consideration
given to the context of its creation, and enduring significance.

If you look at this ridiculous contraption as a parody of doctrines
which rob us of our responsibility for our own actions, it perhaps
explains why the artists found it so deliciously irresistible:

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Modern psychological humanism has a lot to offer, but in terms
of The Tarot as a revolutionary tool for the liberty of mankind,
there is a lot to be said for championing such things as free will.
 

Diana

tmgrl2 said:
One looks like a monkey (imitator), the other like a rabbit (cowardice) and the third, on top, like a dog (resignation).

No, no, no. (And no.) It is not a dog at the top!!! It is a Sphinx. A Greek sphinx. How can one mistake her for anything else? She asks you the famous question, you know, the one that goes: What walks on four legs in the morning, on two legs at midday and on three legs in the evening?

Where do you come from? she asks.
Who are you now? she asks.
And where are you going? she asks again.

The monkey is our instinct.
The rabbit/dog is our rational side.
 

Fulgour

Diana said:
She asks you the famous question, you know, the one that goes: What walks on four legs in the morning, on two legs at midday and on three legs in the evening?
Crawling as a babe, walking as a man, leaning on a cane...

Uneasy sits the crown...?

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