The Wickwillow Tarot formerly the Stained Glass tarot

daphne

Mallah said:
thank you for joining the conversation, Daphne. I'm going to have BOTH scenic and unillustrated pips. I personally prefer pips, the readings really open up once you get used to that...but i know many will prefer scenic.

I'm also contemplating, (and want votes) going with diamonds, hearts, spades and clubs....over the traditional coins, cups, wands, and swords.

As for childish, I think "cartoony" cards are often more telling...TdM is quite cartoony. I'm not really an artist, so the characters just come out that way!
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Both?!! Wow, that is quite an endearing project, I admire you and I wish you good luck, it will take a lot of time and energy.

I don`t use TdM (not because I don`t like it, I just don`t know how to handle pips), so I am happy to hear about the scenic ones (will they be RW or thoth-based?).

I like the idea of going diamonds, heart, spades and clubs, it`s something refreshing, I vote for it.

As for the art, as long as there are lavishly colored, the drawings will always call me.
 

Debra

I like your concept for the Wheel, Mallah, and you might be surprised to hear that I like your quick rough sketches quite a bit, maybe better than your finished cards. I think this is partly because the rough sketches have a bit of breathing room and a sense of motion, whereas the finished artwork is static and kind of boxed in.

Overall I think the use of colored pencils works against your aim for a stained glass effect.

Stained glass, even when it is mottled, doesn't have the grain that you get with pencils. You can overcome this by smudging the pencils (they actually sell a special pencil for this, made of tightly rolled paper). Apparently they're called Tortillons (blending stumps).

Honestly, though, I think that for a stained glass look, this is not the right medium.
 

Mallah

@Daphne, re: Thoth or RWS based...to me, Thoth based would really be pips..."moody" pips, yes, but no "people".

No, not that. Probably more like RWS, but I might try to pull some fast ones and throw some different twists...not a "clone" on other words. I have a few "thoth based" with scenic minors in my library, and in my opinion they only depart (in the minors) from RWS in a few places...6 of swords, for example...um...two of wands (dominion)...but for the most part they seem real similar in their meaning...not their ILLUSTRATION of course...but I think of Thoth as pips. (with words on them, boo hiss, and moods...)

So I'll have both, but probably seperately packaged...and one might come first, before the other...the other minors might be a "booster pak" type of arrangement. Of course the publisher might not buy the idea. Publishers seem to want RWS decks these days. I don't know enough about that part yet...(a discussion I hope to open here as i get towards the minors...) but my personal reading preference is the pips, because I've seen the my world of readings really open up, and want to encourage and help others to make that leap as well. But, because I've used RWS myself (and variants) for many years, I have no problem having those as well. Further, if people want a different, say, Heirophant card, I have no issue with making one and offering it as a limited edition...say $10 for the one card...collectable, and a way to CUSTOMIZE your TAROT SYSTEM to your own preference. THis is sort of the way I want to head with this...instead of making another whole deck, continuing to put out "upgrades" so that people can "pimp" their deck the way they want it to go. My art talents are a little crude, but the crude decks sort of hold a charm and sometimes artistic mistakes actually end up MEANING Something in the cards. Some of the TdM images have some very quirky things...and look how long THOSE cards have been around!

So anyway, theres' some of my thinking.
 

Mallah

Debra said:
I like your concept for the Wheel, Mallah, and you might be surprised to hear that I like your quick rough sketches quite a bit, maybe better than your finished cards. I think this is partly because the rough sketches have a bit of breathing room and a sense of motion, whereas the finished artwork is static and kind of boxed in.

Overall I think the use of colored pencils works against your aim for a stained glass effect.

Stained glass, even when it is mottled, doesn't have the grain that you get with pencils. You can overcome this by smudging the pencils (they actually sell a special pencil for this, made of tightly rolled paper). Apparently they're called Tortillons (blending stumps).

Honestly, though, I think that for a stained glass look, this is not the right medium.
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Debra; I know exactly what you mean...and I do use the blending stumps and colorless blenders EXTENSIVELY, and still don't get there...so I know...and that's why I've said "stained glass" is a working title. Sometimes I'm getting closer to a mosaic kind of look. I really havent the option at any other media at this time, so I'm a little stuck with what I'm doing, and I can't see changing media in mid-deck, so I'm committed to doing the best I can with what I've got. However, I'm not opposed to taking the stained glass monicker of it...after all, it's not really stained glass, nor are any of the other "stained glass" tarots I'm aware of. It's stained glass INSPIRED certainly. And you have no IDEA how much i'd LOVE to do a real stained glass tarot one day!

But, compared to what they look like WITHOUT blending, they look a lot smoother and glassier than they did before blending.

You may be right...but I think the only thing I can do is take the stained glass name off and continue the way I'm going...I was thinking that the other night, anyhow. Can't really call something stained glass that's not. Just don't have a better name yet. Work in progress. Thanks for your input, stick around...I need everyone's input.

PS Debra, WHICH wheel did you like better? One is "comic" and sort of high and remote, the other is immediate..BANG...luck, a gamble, a change of fortune. But, contemporary. i'm wrestling there between these extremes.
 

Mallah

Hehe...maybe this is the first place where i'll end up with TWO cards to choose from...shoot I could do about 5 wheel of fortune cards! I was thinking of just doing ONE....but after listening to MYSELF and my idea of "pimp your deck", maybe I just need to do BOTH of these, eh? That leaves it to others to choose. Well, and me....I'd have to figure out which one to use in readings...boy what a dilemma! LOL
 

Debra

I like them both. It depends on what you're aiming for with the overall tone and feel of the deck. Either works, composition-wise :)

eta: If it's not mimicking stained glass, then the lead-lines aren't necessary. If you want a mosaic look, that's a different thing, I think. Then you are talking about tiles, and often these have a very light grout, and almost always the grout lines are minimized as much as possible and are of even width.

Anyway, good luck with your vision--taking on a project like this is quite an ambition, and I hope you're enjoying it and that it comes out just the way you like!
 

Mallah

What think you all? Am I over extending myself, either aiming too high for what my media, and perhaps my artistic talents can do? I'm open to hearing that.

Perhaps a "sketchier" approach is called for, given my skills and materials. I could see spending LESS time...each of these probably took about 10 hours just to color...not to mention the design time....

It's ok..it's all good... I have limited skills in this department, (I'm more of a cartoonist, really...) and limited funds... for paints and such.... so better to make some changes now, perhaps come back with a style more suitable to my tools and talent? (And will appreciate your input and honesty then, too...) I don't suppose I'll ever QUIT drawing tarot cards entirely...I like it too much...very soothing...but I can certainly aim in different places in the artistic spectrum...(I think)...long as it's not higher! Simpler, maybe?

Feel free to say whatever you are thinking...better i hear it now and adjust, no? That's sort of the vibe I'm getting... But need to hear it.... don't be TOO nice...that's not as helpful as honesty....
 

Debra

Play to your strengths.
 

gregory

I DON'T like the idea of playing card suits....

The stained glass effect might work better on the medium Babalon Jones suggested ? debra's right that on most of the cards it - isn't stained glass. In a few it works though - maybe it is where you have too many colour gradations ?
 

daphne

Mallah said:
@Daphne, re: Thoth or RWS based...to me, Thoth based would really be pips..."moody" pips, yes, but no "people".

No, not that. Probably more like RWS, but I might try to pull some fast ones and throw some different twists...not a "clone" on other words. I have a few "thoth based" with scenic minors in my library, and in my opinion they only depart (in the minors) from RWS in a few places...6 of swords, for example...um...two of wands (dominion)...but for the most part they seem real similar in their meaning...not their ILLUSTRATION of course...but I think of Thoth as pips. (with words on them, boo hiss, and moods...)

So I'll have both, but probably seperately packaged...and one might come first, before the other...the other minors might be a "booster pak" type of arrangement. Of course the publisher might not buy the idea. Publishers seem to want RWS decks these days. I don't know enough about that part yet...(a discussion I hope to open here as i get towards the minors...) but my personal reading preference is the pips, because I've seen the my world of readings really open up, and want to encourage and help others to make that leap as well. But, because I've used RWS myself (and variants) for many years, I have no problem having those as well. Further, if people want a different, say, Heirophant card, I have no issue with making one and offering it as a limited edition...say $10 for the one card...collectable, and a way to CUSTOMIZE your TAROT SYSTEM to your own preference. THis is sort of the way I want to head with this...instead of making another whole deck, continuing to put out "upgrades" so that people can "pimp" their deck the way they want it to go. My art talents are a little crude, but the crude decks sort of hold a charm and sometimes artistic mistakes actually end up MEANING Something in the cards. Some of the TdM images have some very quirky things...and look how long THOSE cards have been around!

So anyway, theres' some of my thinking.
Click to expand...

Sorry for the confusion in my question, I understand that RW and Thothy have a common base, but I don`t see thoth as having pips, for me the art on minors looks also scenic, in a way. But if you refer to people in minors to call them scenic, then yes, that was my question and you already answered it. Pips are TdM decks and I would be really happy to find a deck or a book or a person that can open its doors for me. Having already gone through this experience RW -> TdM, will you also have a companion book to discuss this (or maybe you have a site, blog I can read about this)?

Regarding the personalized deck, I think it is a great idea, you seem to be full of creative energy and very prolific. Like a tarot explosion. For me, but I talk only in my name, it will be too expensive and I will not go for the "extras". I would be glad if, at most, I can buy a standard scenic and a standard non-scenic deck (because, of course, I will want both versions), bot not more.

The art is crude, as you said, but I was not referring to TdM "crude" style, it`s something different. But I like it.

How far are you with the deck?

And now I am going to read all the messages your wrote before, the "pimped" decks it`s quite an unique approach, I am curious about you and your art.
 
Deck Pricing If you wanted to create a non-traditional deck