Intuition Discussion Launched from Key Word Thread

Teheuti said:

Stop the plane! To say that "divine madness" is a synonym for intuition is strange (to say the least). And, I don't know what word Rumi used, but just because someone translated it as intuition doesn't qualify Rumi as the final arbiter of what defines the English word intuition. I've heard Coleman Barks say that his translations are not literal, for instance!

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The intuition that I speak of is the intuition that has to do with receiving spiritual information. I think we've established that?

"Perhaps the most interesting facet of this is Socrates' reliance on what the Greeks called his "daemonic sign", an averting (ἀποτρεπτικός apotreptikos) INNER VOICE Socrates heard only when he was about to make a mistake. It was this sign that prevented Socrates from entering into politics. In the Phaedrus, we are told Socrates considered this to be a form of "divine madness", the sort of insanity that is a gift from the gods and gives us poetry, mysticism, love, and even philosophy itself."

What else should we call that? It's intuition.

As for Rumi, it is true that the translations are not literal. But I speak the language. My grandfather was also a Sufi and a Philosopher so I can tell you with total certainty that the translation would be what we define as "intuition" and nothing else.

Teheuti said:

Stop the plane! To say that "divine madness" is a synonym for intuition is strange (to say the least). And, I don't know what word Rumi used, but just because someone translated it as intuition doesn't qualify Rumi as the final arbiter of what defines the English word intuition. I've heard Coleman Barks say that his translations are not literal, for instance!

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Ha! have a safe flight!

andybc said:

Intuition is a cognitive process i.e. something your brain does.

Several words . . also have contextual meaning. Of which intuition has begun to be used in a spiritual sense, but the intuitive facualty is not.

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That's quite lucid, Andy. "Spiritual" is a slippery term - kind of a metaphysical chameleon - that can mean pretty much whatever you want it to mean, as long as it transcends the rational. That makes it rather useless as an ontological "anchor point" in any reasoned discussion about the nature of being. I see the intuitive faculty as a special permutation of the cognitive process: it can make instantaneous leaps of awareness or understanding that the processes of routine mentation are too linear to accomplish. But it seems to me that it often arrives at an "approximation" of the truth, not the whole truth. That's where the fine-tuning of reading the cards in a more analytical way comes into its own. I agree that intuitive cognition isn't spiritual, but it's also not entirely rational in the conventional sense. Maybe we should consider it to be "extra-rational." It exists in the interstices between thought and spirituality, perhaps mediating between the two.

Ok, what if i was to say "Lenormand cards are meant to be read by psychic people." That doesn't sound right does it? My original statement was something like "I believe lenormand cards are meant to be read by intuitive people - otherwise they might be very confusing." But I could also say: "lenormand cards are really most easily read by people who are very in touch with their sixth sense and have the ability to discern the meanings of each card in association with the other without the use of mental faculties to avoid confusion" But that sounds slightly ridiculous! Really the only word I can come up with is "intuition."

Teheuti said:

I think you are also distinguishing between relating to 'spirit' and religious belief - both of which are called spiritual.

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I side with the cynics in such matters, but I don't believe that religion as practiced by the masses is especially spiritual; it's one of those "conditioned responses" I've been talking about, and it's largely fear-based, a method of mind control that keeps the priesthood in power and the "sheep" compliant. But this is the wrong thread for that discussion . . . Spirit in my personal view is something that pervades all matter to a greater or lesser extent. (Quantum physics has been coming up with some tantalizingly supportive conclusions, at its most rarified levels of investigation.) Humans are deluded to think they can quantify it, price it and package it for sale. Rocks don't care.

intothemusic said:

Ok, what if i was to say "Lenormand cards are meant to be read by psychic people." That doesn't sound right does it? My original statement was something like "I believe lenormand cards are meant to be read by intuitive people - otherwise they might be very confusing." But I could also say: "lenormand cards are really most easily read by people who are very in touch with their sixth sense and have the ability to discern the meanings of each card in association with the other without the use of mental faculties to avoid confusion" But that sounds slightly ridiculous! Really the only word I can come up with is "intuition."

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I can only speak from personal experience here, but I've never had to reach for intuitive impressions with Lenormand the way that I routinely do with tarot. There is an old computer term, WYSIWYG, that is a perfect reference for my exposure to Lenormand so far. Perhaps it's there, unbidden, but I think I'm sensitive enough to know when intuition overtakes a more literal, analyitical interpretation. I don't see intuition as something that "just happens," I see it as a tool at my command; I let it loose and then reel it back in with whatever it has "hooked" (thank you, Andy, for that vivid analogy )

Barleywine said:

I can only speak from personal experience here, but I've never had to reach for intuitive impressions with Lenormand the way that I routinely do with tarot. There is an old computer term, WYSIWYG, that is a perfect reference for my exposure to Lenormand so far. Perhaps it's there, unbidden, but I think I'm sensitive enough to know when intuition overtakes a more literal, analyitical interpretation. I don't see intuition as something that "just happens," I see it as a tool at my command; I let it loose and then reel it back in with whatever it has "hooked" (thank you, Andy, for that vivid analogy )

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So are you saying you find Lenormand easier to read than Tarot? Because in the last few years a lot of blogs have popped up about the Lenormand cards. Back in the day, the only English written one was Seaqueen (and i think her blog is fabulous btw). I'm not much of a blog follower/reader but I've definitely taken a look around at what's out there - just to see if there's anything new. My impression has been that very few of the bloggers actually have a knack for reading Lenormand. It's my impression that tarot cards seem to be much easier to grasp for most.

intothemusic said:

So are you saying you find Lenormand easier to read than Tarot? Because in the last few years a lot of blogs have popped up about the Lenormand cards. Back in the day, the only English written one was Seaqueen (and i think her blog is fabulous btw). I'm not much of a blog follower/reader but I've definitely taken a look around at what's out there - just to see if there's anything new. My impression has been that very few of the bloggers actually have a knack for reading Lenormand. It's my impression that tarot cards seem to be much easier to grasp for most.

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Your first observation would be a fair assessment. I only picked up Lenormand about six months ago, and it made immediate sense to me. But, as I said earlier, I had been reading tarot since the early 1970s, as well as picking up other more literal methods of divination along the way - horary astrology, geomancy, numerology - so my adoption of new modes is fairly syncretic (that is, there is a common thread of inspiration running through all of them that promotes their integration).

Tarot as I learned and practiced it (from the more esoteric side of the house) really benefits from a broad and deep exposure to various "knowledge bases" - primarily qabalistic, astrological and alchemical - but also philosophical, psychological, historical, etc (a rather large "etc," I'd say, but I'm not fully awake yet ). It wasn't a question of over-complicating things unnecessarily, it's just how my mind works. Obviously, not all of these come into play when reading for someone, but they lurk just under the surface and often come to the fore when I'm grasping for insights. It can be quite a labyrinth of associations, whereas Lenormand gives up its "core" principles to systematic scrutiny much more readily.

I came across the PL sheet almost immediately, so I had a "touchstone" that laid out the heart of the system quite succinctly. Also, I left my more nuanced tarot sensibilities at the door. The cards are gems of "plain-speak," there are far fewer of them to contend with, and there is a "grammar" implicit in the system that responds to analytical inquiry first and then opens up into a more fluid interpretive track as the patterns jell. It has a structure to it that the more free-associating tarot reader lacks (at least as a fundamental learning tool). Most important, I think, is that I don't try to force psychological, sociological or spiritual relevance out of them, the kind of stuff that modern tarot practice takes as a given. Andy dubbed that tendency the "tarotising of Lenormand," and I don't feel compelled to do it, probably because I entered on the traditionalist "ground floor." Izzydunne also summed it up neatly (but I couldn't resist editorializing): reading Lenormand is about a good grasp of core meanings, a modicum of structure and intuitive vision as needed to smooth out the "bumps" in the interpretation, and I take them in that order of precedence.

Teheuti: I agree with your definition of intuition. Is it possible that something else going on? I don't know. But we can go off of what we do know scientifically about the brain and go off the evidence we do have.

As far as I apply this to tarot, I don't claim that I can tap into a higher power or see the future, I just pose an interpretation of the cards and my clients can take what seems helpful and leave the rest.