Giving advice during readings (split off from Intuition Discussion)

Moderator's note:

Some off-topic comments have been removed from two posts.

Lee, Lenormand Co-Moderator

I feel there is a huge difference between telling people what they must do, and suggesting what they could do. Personal responsibility comes into play when they decide whether or not to act on that advice.

When I go for a reading it is because I am struggling to find answers for myself and I need some help. I don't want to just be told what is going on because I already know, I want some advice regarding what I can do about it.

I don't see it as control, I see it as helping someone to find the way. It's like when someone asks for directions in the street, they want something along the lines of "take the first turning on the right and then turn left by the pub", they probably don't want to be advised they need to find their own way because the person they are asking doesn't want to control them.

I agree with Teheuti, telling people that they must not tell people what to do is actually telling people what do do, which seems to be a bit of a contradiction.

avalonian said:

I feel there is a huge difference between telling people what they must do, and suggesting what they could do. Personal responsibility comes into play when they decide whether or not to act on that advice.

When I go for a reading it is because I am struggling to find answers for myself and I need some help. I don't want to just be told what is going on because I already know, I want some advice regarding what I can do about it.

I don't see it as control, I see it as helping someone to find the way. It's like when someone asks for directions in the street, they want something along the lines of "take the first turning on the right and then turn left by the pub", they probably don't want to be advised they need to find their own way because the person they are asking doesn't want to control them.

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This is really the heart of it. There seem to be two broad classes of people who seek readings (well, three if you count those who just want to be entertained): those who want a "survey of the landscape" before taking an important step, and those who have a particularly pressing matter they want to have illuminated. Obviously, there are many different gradients of these extremes, but they seem to be the major determinants of how much emphasis on giving direction is expected. The majority of the readings I've done since taking up Lenormand have been of the first type. But I won't shy away from being more emphatic about the advisability of a particular course of action if the need appears to be great and the reading clearly supports it. On the other hand, I'm still just the navigator, not the pilot, and I take pains to make sure that is clear. There is a "tipping point" where giving advice rolls over into taking responsibility for another's actions, and we should be wary of crossing it if that isn't our intent. As much as I trust the validity of the method, I'm nobody's shepherd (and I guess I'm not much of a rhymer either )

Izzydunne said:

Anyone who tells people what to do is not encouraging personal responsibility, they are encouraging the opposite. Evidently those who despise this concept, do so because they specialize in controlling others.

In addition, if you tell someone what to do, you are partially responsible for the outcome. If it goes badly, it is partially on your shoulders.

Folks this is not a new concept i am presenting, and it is widely accepted in groups where personal responsibility is not only encouraged it is required. However, since some of you folks like telling your clients, friends, partners, etc., what to do, I will step off, and take the show somewhere else.

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I think you are overlooking something, when a reader is "telling what to do" they are merely giving a solution to a problem. If the actions are not taken than, the solution can't be. Thus, it can't be the readers responsibility.

And you are overlooking why your readers came from : you don't give advice as what to do to a reader that doesn't ask for it … otherwise it is in a broader reading where you assets a situation and get to see actions and conclusions. You are than not saying what to do but telling more or less a story. Where is your responsibility in this ?

I am sorry but all previous poster got to answer a side of the same point of view : none of us are taking responsibility nor controlling consultant by telling them what they can do. Because that's what it is : you are telling someone what they can do it they want a certain outcome. Now, they can choose not to do it, or do it differently. I know that when I get a reading and advice, I don't follow them ( mostly because I forget ) because that my life doesn't work like the normal ones so usual advices don't make it. And that's what most people do. Your advices aren't seen as you think by the one receiving it.

It looks like you need to see the concept of taking responsibility differently. Actually, the way you are seeing it, going for fortune-telling is really irresponsible because you are not taking responsibility for the situation you are facing, since the situation is from previous actions that you ought to take account for. Your conception of responsibility is that everyone is involve in EVERY responsibility for EVERYONE, than … please, consider World Peace or Global Warming …

Here we are talking about helping people understanding and seeing options they may not see. Not being freak control over the whole world.

Izzydunne said:

Anyone who tells people what to do is not encouraging personal responsibility, they are encouraging the opposite. Evidently those who despise this concept, do so because they specialize in controlling others.

In addition, if you tell someone what to do, you are partially responsible for the outcome. If it goes badly, it is partially on your shoulders.

Folks this is not a new concept i am presenting, and it is widely accepted in groups where personal responsibility is not only encouraged it is required. However, since some of you folks like telling your clients, friends, partners, etc., what to do, I will step off, and take the show somewhere else.

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Hi izzydunne,
Regarding the person requesting the reading, sometimes they will ask you what should they do. I always try to talk around a direct answer but some people will continue to press you for one. These are people who are not able to accept personal responsibility. Not everyone is emotionally mature enough or stable enough to accept personal responsibility. If everyone was able to make their own decisions then there would be no need for therapists, psychologists, counselors, etc. People want answers to things they can't understand or control. That's part of the reason they come for readings. I bet more readers offer suggested actions rather than tell them what to do.

Using the phrase "control" implies that the person is allowing it on some level. If I went for a reading and the reader told me to do something, I wouldn't do it unless it was what I wanted to do in the first place. I don't think that everyone is open to being told what to do. I see your concern and understand where you are coming from. I don't think it is happening as often as you might feel. NOT to say it doesn't happen. It does but I don't think it's a lot of readers who would state their readings as fact. I could be wrong so I am sure people will speak up if that's the case

If a client asks a specific question such as, "Is my husband cheating?" Is it okay to tell her yes your husband is cheating, if the cards indicate so?

How then is it any different to ask, "Should I enroll my child in a private school or public school?" and the cards say the child is better off in public school?

The cards give direction in answering the clients questions. I personally do not see how a reader in this case would be telling a client what to do. The answer didn't come from me.

Am I missing something here?

Personal responsibility is ultimately personal. It’s not circumscribed by giving an answer or a directive on a possible course of action.

I frequently get questions that are ‘should I do X, Y, Z’ and the Petit Lenormand will tell me what will happen if the querent follows that action. I simply tell my clients that the cards (or whatever) say ‘yes’ or ‘no’ and then explain why.

For instance, someone asked me a couple of weeks ago, should they loan their sibling $1000.00. The line of five came back overwhelmingly negative and actually showed, should they go ahead, it would cause them financial difficulty.

My querent did have the personal responsibility to ultimately take that advice or not. My duty as their reader, whether I use palmistry, Petit Lenormand or horary, is to read for them and tell them what I foresee and answer their questions.

For me, and for them, that is empowering. I do not have the right to impose a doctrine of what they can, or cannot, hear from the cards which is controlling in my humble opinion and deeply disempowering. After all, if I read for myself, I follow the advice given most of them time... Don't most of us?

[Moderator note: Off-topic comment removed.]

Village Witch said:

If a client asks a specific question such as, "Is my husband cheating?" Is it okay to tell her yes your husband is cheating, if the cards indicate so?

How then is it any different to ask, "Should I enroll my child in a private school or public school?" and the cards say the child is better off in public school?

The cards give direction in answering the clients questions. I personally do not see how a reader in this case would be telling a client what to do. The answer didn't come from me.

Am I missing something here?

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Let me preface this with 'in my opinion'

I think you are missing the fact that readings are interpreted by the reader and that another reader might
interpret those cards differently. No one reader is correct all the time.

I would not answer those questions with a 'yes or no'. I would say that the cards 'suggest' your husband
is/is not cheating or the cards 'suggest' the private school would be a positive/negative experience for your child.

I would never state yes, someone's spouse is cheating. I do not know one reader who can state
that their readings are 100% accurate. I would not condemn someone's spouse as a cheater solely by
my reading. I could be wrong. That's the bottom line isn't it? Readings can be wrong. They aren't 100%
accurate so how can you answer life-altering questions with a definitive answer based on the reading?

I think it is better tell them what the cards suggest. They have to decide how they want to interpret
that information and what choices they make. It's ultimately their decision on what they do with the information
I always tell them to do more research, see what else they can find out before making a decision.
Not to only use the information in my reading to decide.

karen0205 said:

I think it is better tell them what the cards suggest. They have to decide how they want to interpret
that information and what choices they make. It's ultimately their decision on what they do with the information
I always tell them to do more research, see what else they can find out before making a decision.
Not to only use the information in my reading to decide.

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Yes. This is one important reason why I prefer to have them involved in shuffling the cards: I can make it clear that they're active participants in the reading, not just passive bystanders. I like them to get the idea they're "imprinting" the deck with their consciousness. So the suggestions that come out of the reading can be considered as much a form of "auto-suggestion" as they are external advice, or maybe more so. In essence, the cards are "reading them," and i'm simply the translator. If they were still paying me (I'm just an avid hobbyist these days), what they would be buying is help to "interpret themselves to themselves" (for lack of a more elegant phrase). I've had a lot of exposure to the "we create our own reality through our choices" school of mysticism over the years, and in this sense the cards open a window into the "self-realization" process, where the formative basis (aka "the answer") for every latent or emerging development can be tapped and deciphered via the reading.

Just my personal "creation myth" for the cartomantic cosmos, my answer to "Where do babies come from, Daddy?" File under "Metaphysics" and cross-index under "Parapsychology," I guess.

Barleywine said:

Yes. This is one important reason why I prefer to have them involved in shuffling the cards: I can make it clear that they're active participants in the reading, not just passive bystanders. I like them to get the idea they're "imprinting" the deck with their consciousness. So the suggestions that come out of the reading can be considered as much a form of "auto-suggestion" as they are external advice, or maybe more so. In essence, the cards are "reading them," and i'm simply the translator. If they were still paying me (I'm just an avid hobbyist these days), what they would be buying is help to "interpret themselves to themselves" (for lack of a more elegant phrase). I've had a lot of exposure to the "we create our own reality through our choices" school of mysticism over the years, and tarot in this sense opens a window into the "self-realization" process, where the formative basis (aka "the answer") for every latent or emerging development can be tapped and deciphered via the reading.

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Are you saying then that if I suspect my husband is cheating that I can influence the cards to get a reading that affirms my suspicions?