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Astraea  Astraea is offline
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originally posted by Minderwiz:
Quote:
...the House system used actually means that the intercepted axis is not expressed in the interpretation and therefore needs to find other ways to express itself - if you ignore it, it won't go away. All the sign axes need to be considered in the reading and in the very earliest interepretations they were.
I always interpret interceptions -- they are vital foci of the interpretation, precisely because their signs do not occupy cusps; they are metaphorical "sore thumbs" that demand attention. To me, the intercepted energies will either be repressed, in which case they will be expressed in unadapted ways requiring a challenging process of redirection, or they will represent areas of greatly heightened consciousness (a form of prodigy).

The houses in which interceptions occur, as well as the intercepted signs themselves, represent various lenses through which we can look at individuals, events or questions. For me, it is not a question of "either/or," but "both/and." I personally use the Koch system of house division, in which (with reference to Aeclectic) the Taurus/Scorpio interception would refer to power and dominance issues within the forum, amplifying the Aries/Libra complex described by the Placidus system.
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Just a note about house systems, for those who might be interested in that area of astrology: due to mathematical issues concerning the intersection of space, most systems of house division at extreme latitudes will fail, mooting the issue of interceptions. The Equal House system is a notable exception -- in it, each house cusp occupies the same degree of its sign, beginning in order with the sign and degree of the Ascendant; the Midheaven thus becomes an important factor in interpretation, but only infrequently is it simultaneously the cusp of the 10th house.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Minderwiz

On Natural Rulers - Starsongs comments are very interesting. Furthermore there are a variety of ways of looking at natural rulers - on a sign basis the traditional 'natural' ruler of the eleventh is Saturn, ruler of Aquarius - Saturn is in the first House of the Brisbane first post. Alternatively, there is a system of natural rulers based on the Chaldean order of planets, in which Saturn rules the first and it is placed there in this chart, through to the Moon ruling the seventh and then beginning again with Saturn ruling the eighth. The natural ruler of the eleventh would be Venus (which actually rules the 5th/11th axis in this system) - Venus again is in the first House of the Brisbane chart. Both of these suggest that the community is with Aeclectic at the moment of its birth - there is a ready made membership (which there was). Treating Venus as natural ruler, it signifies the membership in the Flossmoor chart (through Strange2) and is natural ruler of the eleventh of the community and the fifth of hobbies/pastimes (such as Tarot and Astrology). Venus therefore brings together the members into a community which shares a hobby/enthusiasm.

The various approaches to natural House rulership and interception tease out more nuances of meaning and interest.
I had forgotten about Saturn's relationship to Aquarius. That is interesting, Minderwiz, and does connect Uranus and Saturn as well. Thanks for the added dimension here. Interesting points about Venus too. Will think on this some more.

Quote:
Originally posted by Astraea
[B]originally posted by Minderwiz:

I always interpret interceptions -- they are vital foci of the interpretation, precisely because their signs do not occupy cusps; they are metaphorical "sore thumbs" that demand attention. To me, the intercepted energies will either be repressed, in which case they will be expressed in unadapted ways requiring a challenging process of redirection, or they will represent areas of greatly heightened consciousness (a form of prodigy).

The houses in which interceptions occur, as well as the intercepted signs themselves, represent various lenses through which we can look at individuals, events or questions. For me, it is not a question of "either/or," but "both/and." I personally use the Koch system of house division, in which (with reference to Aeclectic) the Taurus/Scorpio interception would refer to power and dominance issues within the forum, amplifying the Aries/Libra complex described by the Placidus system.
I believe that about interceptions too, Astraea. I've used both Koch and Placidus systems. Currently Placidus is my system of choice. One thing that I've noticed is that if a chart is changed significantly from one house system to the other (as this one is) often it is interesting to look at both house systems together. When this is the case, Placidus seems to relate more to the psychological/inner subjective dynamic whereas Koch is often situational/circumstantial or more outward and visible; perhaps the way in which the dynamic plays out, much like you've described above.

starsongs
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Astraea,

I love the analogy of the 'sore thumb' - and I fully agree that they demand attention. My 'difficulty' is deciding in what sense they ae a 'sore thumb' - the obvious reason for my difficulty being that they do (or at least can) go away if we change the house system.

However there is, I think, a psychological (or psychic?) link between readers and their chosen house system. Some house systems 'speak' more clearly than others to us. I think it is in this psychological link that the 'sore thumb' sticks out. The intereception requires that we address it and try to ascertain what it means in the context of a particular chart. In other words the interception is not so much inherent in the person or situation but in how we, as readers, perceive that person or situation. The interception of the Aries/Libra axis requires that the Placidus user addresses that axis and considers how it plays out in this chart. The interception of Taurus/Scorpio presents a different issue to the Koch reader but both house system users are forced to consider their respective interceptions and therefore address all the axes. It may well be that readings that use two different House systems begin to converge when the interceptions are addressed - though I think there will always be nuances due to the house system and to the reader's perception.

You described the intercepted signs and houses in which the occur as lenses through which we look at the individual or event - in a real sense the House system itself is also a lens through which we look at the individuals or events.
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Unhappy Correction


When I posted on the Natural rulers, I wasfeeling rather tired (nothing to do with the glasses of wine I had just consumed )

I therefore miscounted the houses from number 8 when I went through the Chaldean system. Eight is Saturn, Nine is Jupiter (appropriately) ten is Mars and Eleven is the Sun (and not Venus). I wondered afterwards why I had one planet over and not two (two sevens is 14 but there are only 12 houses).

So the Sun is the Chaldean ruler of the Eleventh. Whilst this demolishes my wonderful construction about Venus it does remind me that in the Flossmoor chart the Sun is also the sign ruler of the Eleventh. So we have a double link. Moreover the Sun is arguably conjunct the Eleventh cusp. The separation is just over 10 degrees, which is wider than many Astrologers would allow, though I know some who would be quite happy with a 10 degree orb for the Sun.

As the first post occured at the Full Moon (Sun and Moon were separating but still in orb) - we could use the symbolism of the Full Moon to say that the post marked the completion of the project of re-establishing the Aeclectic Community.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Minderwiz
...there is, I think, a psychological (or psychic?) link between readers and their chosen house system. Some house systems 'speak' more clearly than others to us. I think it is in this psychological link that the 'sore thumb' sticks out. The intereception requires that we address it and try to ascertain what it means in the context of a particular chart. In other words the interception is not so much inherent in the person or situation but in how we, as readers, perceive that person or situation. The interception of the Aries/Libra axis requires that the Placidus user addresses that axis and considers how it plays out in this chart. The interception of Taurus/Scorpio presents a different issue to the Koch reader but both house system users are forced to consider their respective interceptions and therefore address all the axes. It may well be that readings that use two different House systems begin to converge when the interceptions are addressed - though I think there will always be nuances due to the house system and to the reader's perception.
Minderwiz, I think these are excellent points. You have explained with great clarity why certain house systems (even those which seem to have little validity from the standpoint of mathematics) work beautifully for some people and not well at all for others. The astrologer can never remove him/herself from the equation, and the house system is rather like the spectacles he/she dons to read the chart. Thank you for sharing that insight.
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You people are amazing XTAX I am blown away!
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For those wishing to know more about House systems the following links might be useful:

http://aquamoonlight.uku.co.uk/systems.html

http://www.skyviewzone.com/houseinfopop.htm

These are two introductory short articles.

http://geocosmic.org/articles/astroh...ousemain.shtml - this article is written by Michael Munkasey

http://www.cyclelogical.org/Articles...s%20Houses.htm

This is an article on the Porphyry, Alcabitius and Regiomontanus systems - its very informative but not really for beginners - it even gives you the mathematics to do the calculations (not for the faint hearted!)

http://www.solsticepoint.com/placidus.html an article by Jamie Longstreet (not the Confederate General!)
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ty, Minderwiz for the links! This is a wonderful thread...I have opened a new folder in favorites with the links so when I have time I can read more about the House systems and other aspects of astrology.
terri
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thanks Minderwiz,
this is so useful and interesting.

I must confess your previous post on domification quite left me shaken for days. (!!) I actually never reflect about the matter. It certainly amplify and complicate the whole view. no intellectual indulgence - most 'truth' :-) - much pleasure :-))

bye, L.
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