Thoth vs. Liber T

Well, in my case I think the Liber T is the best Thoth clone out there, and even better than the original Thoth by Crowley and Harris.

I have a Liber T on the way, so I'll be able to look at them all side-by-side. When it gets here, I'll pore through the OP again with it.

Like closrapexa, I also have a Hermetic deck (two, actually) for study purposes. All my decks are in non-shuffled order to facilitate study and ready comparison except for decks in current use for other purposes. That's generally the RWS and Thoth, and for those, I have shuffled copies specifically for that purpose: a pocket RWS and a pocket Thoth.

I do occasionally shuffle the other decks but have become adept at reordering them. (At least I'm adept at something?!) most of the practice in that came from ordering secondhand decks to ensure they arrived whole.

The Hermetic is an interesting deck. I have a first edition Fournier, a beautiful thing. However, the only authentic GD deck that I know of is the Regardie-Wang, which is artistically mediocre. Rider-Waite diverges radically from GD in significant ways, such as in The Lovers, which, according to PKT, is based on a Gnostic interpretation of the Adam-Eve-Snake event instead of Perseus-Andromeda. I'm keeping my new giant Thoth unshuffled, and I should probably unshuffle the Regardie-Wang. I am very interested in impressions of the Liber T, especially by those for whom it is not a recent acquisition. I liked the Universal Waite very much at first, but it soon became so bland for me that I reverted to the "garish" Albano-Waite with enthusiasm.

LRichard said:

...I am very interested in impressions of the Liber T, especially by those for whom it is not a recent acquisition...

Click to expand...

I would enjoy seeing this as well along with hearing from anyone having experience with or comments on the recently-released Rosetta Tarot deck which also seems to be strongly hermetically-influenced. (I recently got one of these beauties but have my hands full with the others.)

I also think that the Liber T is one of the best Thoth clones. I have the Deva and the Via - both Thoth clones but much harder to get into, especially the Deva with its fifth suit (although I enjoy using this beermat-like deck), and the Via with its extra little figures that throw me straight off the card.

The Liber T's artwork is very fluid, colours are solid but not garish. You can instantly see the Thoth influences in the artwork but it's not a straightforward copy. The Minors are my favourite cards in this deck, I love the smaller scenes on the lower half of the cards. I do think that it is easier to understand than the Thoth, I've used the Liber T for around 4 years now and I've still only just scratched the surface but I've never had so much fun with a deck.

Thanks for the review, Emily! I'm trying to decide whether I might find it too bland and mellow compared to the incisiveness of the Thoth. Of course, that's strictly a matter of personal taste, and I suppose the only way to know for sure is buy it and find out by hands on experience.

a_gnostic said:

Aha! Indeed, Rosetta's LWB does indicate that The Star is associated with Heh, while the Hermetic's indicates Tzaddi! I kind of knew there was some disagreement between Crowley and Levi on these associations, but it did not occur to me that this could reliably differentiate between these traditions. Thank you!.......

Click to expand...

Here is a chart of the Hebrew letter correlations of Levi, Golden Dawn, and Thoth. I think it is substantially correct.

LRichard said:

Here is a chart of the Hebrew letter correlations of Levi, Golden Dawn, and Thoth. I think it is substantially correct.

Click to expand...

I've been building a spreadsheet listing characteristics and attributions side-by-side for each of the 78 cards in multiple decks (and a few other perspectives), and this info fits right in there. A new "Levi" column will go well next to the "GD" column that's already there. Thank you!

A great analysis on Liber T deck from OP, which I enjoy using along with Crowley Thoth deck recently.

Another advantage of Liber T I feel is, that it has real clear depiction on Astrological and Elemental symbols on each and every cards. Some of Crowley Thoth cards have faint astrological symbols and no elemental symbols at all, so for a beginner like me who is studying these symbols can find it more daunting searching for them in the images.

Although, images on the pip cards of Liber T are more challenging for me to decipher with strange, wild, violent and dream-like abstractions and symbolism, they compel me to meditate for intuitions with the key words of the original Thoth deck and explanations in BOT, which is another plus point for studying.

foolMoon said:

Although, images on the pip cards of Liber T are more challenging for me to decipher with strange, wild, violent and dream-like abstractions and symbolism, they compel me to meditate for intuitions with the key words of the original Thoth deck and explanations in BOT, which is another plus point for studying.

Click to expand...

I also use the BOT and Thoth keywords along with the keywords to the Liber T. I find the smaller images on the Minors are the easiest to work with because sometimes they can get literal with no keywords needed at all, it's just the image that speaks. This seems to work with me with one card draws. I've used this deck for a few years now and am still challenged and amazed by it.