The Current State of the Lenormand Community

shadowdancer

This is the exact reason I have not often posted many readings for discussion or opinions on certain sites. I started doing that, and very quickly became disheartened at the "you should have read them this way / should have used this spread / should have used this many cards / should have used that technique / should have used verb, noun, adjective" by way of response. I have tasked myself with never, ever doing that to another poster, especially someone who is new and finding their feet.

And often, those were coming from people who have only been involved in Lenormand themselves for a few years. Yet they seem to have garnered a lot of respect and their voice is deemed to carry much more weight accordingly. I am not saying this is wrong, or decrying their expertise. I just feel they are given greater importance by many, because of their standing in the Lenormand world. With that, their opinions of how to read have become almost akin to set in stone. And their reputation as being the font of all Lenormand knowledge becomes more engrained. I respect the fact they can teach us a great deal and help us on our journey. But I do not respect the sense of ego and elitism that has also crept in. Please do not hammer me for that - it is just my feeling, and I know that in part could be down to the fact typed words can be emotionless and thus give the wrong impression.

However, this is why I jumped with joy when I read Rana George's book. She has been around Lenormand for a very long time. Yet she is incredibly chilled and laid back in her approach. She encourages us to have fun, to play, to learn our own style. So refreshing to see. Not once did she say you have to do this. Heck, she has only recently gone back to using the GT, and it seems for a long time it was not a spread she readily used. I loved her for it.

I may dive in again and do some more readings in the readings part of the AT forum. Will wait to see how busy I am next school term break.

Davina
 

Le Fanu

Or maybe just read for friends/colleagues face to face. They give positive (as in useful) feedback and can help you in untold ways.
 

MoonGypsy

Le Fanu said:
I never really felt that there was a war going on. I do think the writer takes the anguish onto her own back as it were. She didn't fail anyone. Nobody failed anyone.

The phenomena is a curious one. I relate it more to facebook than the actual cards themselves. Facebook allows people to be nasty and sneery and get involved in quickfire dialogues under pseudonyms (such as was averted in this thread ). Add that to "closed" groups, a horror of *Moderating* and it's a recipe for disaster. I think the disillusionment with Lenormand cards / community and the rise of social networking are connected.

I don't know why people don't just get themselves a notebook, a reputable source and then log off and learn. Learn in a vacuum. You don't have to do anyone's "pairing" exercises over breakfast. I read the other day someone commenting on Rana's book - informative, thorough, detailed, readable - that it was considered "overwhelming". Do people not have any concentration span any more?

That's my explanation - a fiery combination of the rise of social networking, the cult of the closed group and a lack of concentration span. But it's a timely debate. That's a good blog post and thanks Tag for bringing it to our attention.



Le Fanu, my ever bright and always astute eloquent friend! :D :*

Can you hear that booming sound? :D
It is me clapping my hands and shouting
Hurrah!!! :thumbsup: You said exactly how i feel, and couldn't even begin
to try and express...;) Bravo!
 

FLizarraga

For some reason I cannot fathom, Lenormand generates a sort of snappishness in people that no other subject does. It has to be this way or that. There are the people who claim that there is some sort of Tradition, handed down from Mme. (Mlle?) Lenormand or somebody, that has to be unblinkingly adhered to --No Questions Asked. There are the loosey-goosey people who claim that Lenormand can be read any way you want, like Scythe can be bountiful harvest, and Mice can be Madonna. And, of course, most intelligent people fall somewhere between these two very extreme views.

If I may be so bold, I'd like to point out that most people in the extremes of this spectrum are NOT Lenormand readers, at least not on this forum. They might be somewhere else, perhaps very lucratively --and, well, more power to them. But, in the end, the ONLY way anybody can prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that his/her method is better than somebody else's is through practical demonstrations. Otherwise --why bother?
 

MoonGypsy

For some reason I cannot fathom, Lenormand generates a sort of snappishness in people that no other subject does. It has to be this way or that. There are the people who claim that there is some sort of Tradition, handed down from Mme. (Mlle?) Lenormand or somebody, that has to be unblinkingly adhered to --No Questions Asked. There are the loosey-goosey people who claim that Lenormand can be read any way you want, like Scythe can be bountiful harvest, and Mice can be Madonna. And, of course, most intelligent people fall somewhere between these two very extreme views.

If I may be so bold, I'd like to point out that most people in the extremes of this spectrum are NOT Lenormand readers, at least not on this forum. They might be somewhere else, perhaps very lucratively --and, well, more power to them. But, in the end, the ONLY way anybody can prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that his/her method is better than somebody else's is through practical demonstrations. Otherwise --why bother?


There should be a standing ovation emoticon! :D
 

Teheuti

Intuitive is a catch-phrase for everything from psychic or channeled insights (intuition sounds less threatening) to personal opinion and biases (makes them seem unquestionable).

The problem, as I see it, is that neither side in our issue wants their assumptions or methods questioned.

Regarding the "first thought that pops into my head" group: When calling it "intuition," it has the benefit that no one can question what they say or where it comes from (spirit, higher self, synchronicity?). Calling it intuition, by definition, seems to make it "right." There is nothing that one intuitionist can learn from another (hence no need for learning groups), and no way to ascertain its correctness in that the information itself or free will can change the outcome. (I've seen people justify their incorrect interpretations in the most amazing ways!)

Traditionalists are just as intuitive. In fact, according to the past 20 years of research into how intuition works, intuition is as likely to be wrong as it is to be right, but the intuition of someone educated in the field in question is far more likely to be right.* Intuition can be seen as going from A to Z without having to consciously go through B, C, D, . . . The educated and experienced person processes much of the information subconsciously and recognizes a pattern that might not be as apparent, nor is it as quick, as a step-by-step, logical process. Learning the steps is a forerunner to intuition.

Traditionalists can get stuck in formulas and miss the flashes of insight if they are going too much 'by the book.' In fact, the Lenormand "book" is a very short one and each traditional reader probably reads as much by patterns that they've seen repeated or passed on word-of-mouth (Rider is usually a car; Crossroads indicates more than one relationship) as they did by the Philippe Instruction Sheet. However, there are things to be learned and one can benefit from critique from an experienced reader.

*(footnote): Doctors who've been trained to use their intuition, combine their first instincts with brief check-point lists that, when combined, yield more correct results, faster, than any other method.
 

Teheuti

in the end, the ONLY way anybody can prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that his/her method is better than somebody else's is through practical demonstrations. Otherwise --why bother?
Has anyone done a study of the accuracy of Lenormand readers?

I've done an informal one - mostly observational over a two year period, based on readings on a FB group for which results were posted. I saw one case where a psychic reader nailed the situation with absolutely exact details in a way that couldn't be explained via the traditional meanings of the cards. It was amazing. One example of this (to the degree in which it was amazingly exact in every detail) in two years!

According to my admittedly biased observation (I was very serious about doing this but did not employ a spreadsheet analysis), the traditionalists tended to answer the question actually asked in a very precise and often accurate way. The 'first impression' people tended to offer advice or express opinions concerning the topic or issue, rather than directly answer the question. When those who gave obviously off-topic responses were questioned as to what cards had determined their 'interpretation,' they often responded that it wasn't in the cards, but was just their 'feeling.' So-called intuitional readers seem to get their impressions as much from the question and the way it was asked as they do from the cards laid.

I used to teach spelling (and developmental skills) in a college. Most of those who hadn't learned to spell conventionally had developed all kinds of ways to cover up their lack of knowledge: they used bad handwriting, a very limited vocabulary, or got others to handle things in very clever ways. Once they learned how to spell, their handwriting changed (handwriting experts take note!), their self-esteem and even their physical posture improved. Also, they developed more respect for precision and beauty in language. Traditionalists often have a similar respect for the precision and beauty of the Lenormand integrated system of cards and meanings.
 

kell

I don't know why people don't just get themselves a notebook, a reputable source and then log off and learn. Learn in a vacuum. You don't have to do anyone's "pairing" exercises over breakfast. I read the other day someone commenting on Rana's book - informative, thorough, detailed, readable - that it was considered "overwhelming". Do people not have any concentration span any more?

That's my explanation - a fiery combination of the rise of social networking, the cult of the closed group and a lack of concentration span. But it's a timely debate. That's a good blog post and thanks Tag for bringing it to our attention.

Well said, Fanu! Both Rana and Sylvie have been reading Lenormand since they were children and have continued for decades. It's all part of instant gratification that is becoming way too common, which goes hand in hand with concentration span.
Lenormand is a divining art, not something to be mastered in a few months (or even years). While there is value in discussing with others in a reputable forum, in the end, one really needs to take the time to 'practice', actually do spreads and tune in.
 

greatdane

When all is said and done....

Sitters either feel they got some insight or they didn't. If they didn't, they probably won't be back.

Theory is great, talking about reading is great, but in the end, it's actually reading. One can read every book, talk about how to read, but until one reads, it's just talk.

I feel readings are tied to the reader. When someone wonders if they read this or that right, I think, by whose standards?

Some see Lenormand as set in stone, this will happen, some see it as looking at a path and the sitter has choices or a warning. Some read more traditionally, some strictly intuitively, some combine both. Some readers have several meanings for cards, some a few.

But in the end, it always comes down to the dynamic of those three things: reader, cards, sitter and whether the sitter feels they got something of use.
 

DownUnderNZer

Must be something in it ~ if the sitter gets something from a reading.

Traditional or not some readers, and it goes for other types of cards, seem to pull things out of nowhere and are simply doing a cold reading or one based on what they know of the sitter. Not just on AT, also, not all do it.

Something is not right when a reader says the Lenormand cards are "confusing" and cant answer questions or they give an answer not related to the question at all. Generals dont really sit right with me as they can go in any direction.

For me it is not about traditional or not, but how the cards are read and whether or not there is a proper base or understanding when being read and /or whether a question is answered or not.

Some Tarot readers also tend to have a Tarot flair with the Lenormand which I find quite amusing and interesting.

The Lenormand, I feel, taught me to be more specific which eventually extended to the Tarot, but some Tarot readers really struggle with the Lenormand.