Hybrid Tarot/Lenormand

I haven't started to wrap my mind around the Lenormand just yet, but I will eventually do it. I thought the general concensus was that the Tarot and Lenormand are totally different. The thought of a hybrid Tarot/Lenormand is too much for me to comprehend at this time... the thought of it makes me shudder. I think it's just an overwhelming proposition at the stage I'm in right now.

I'm sure someone who is proficient in reading both could find a way to make it work. IT will be interesting to see the outcome and the responses to it.

Well, I have a question, Tarotbear

How do you envision this type of hybrid? I am still trying to figure out how one could MELD tarot and Lenormand together and not make it just bits and pieces of each other, but like a new "child". I'm not saying that can't be done, I am just not sure how or what it would look like. You must have something in mind that you would like to see that would bring them harmoniously together?

I guess for me, I just don't see many parallels or overlaps, so I don't have much of an idea of how one would design such a deck. Plus, I automatically think of logistics issues. For instance, you've mentioned putting tarot insets onto the Lenormand cards, but obviously with 36 vs 78 cards there will either need to be 2+ tarot insets per card, or less than half of the tarot will even appear on your Lenormand deck. Is that what you imagine? Maybe you need to give some examples of what you envision!

Even as a "traditional-leaning" Lenormand reader, the idea doesn't make me gnash my teeth so much as scratch my head! What do you see the tarot insets as adding? Do you mean to find a one-to-one match in meanings? I doubt that can be done. Which tarot card would match Dog for friend & loyalty? Or the Fish as money? Anchor as stability or hopes? Which card means obstacles & delays like the Mountain? Or do you mean to color & change the Lenormand meanings one way or the other by the tarot card you add?

These questions are where my mind automatically goes!

ETA: Sorry, had this half finished and open for a while and missed greatdane's post. Obviously I said much the same thing.

That's ok, Kalliope!

Makes me feel I'm not the only one who doesn't see how this would work . I'm not saying I couldn't, I just can't envision it.

kalliope said:

What do you see the tarot insets as adding? Do you mean to find a one-to-one match in meanings? I doubt that can be done. Which tarot card would match Dog for friend & loyalty? Or the Fish as money? Anchor as stability or hopes? Which card means obstacles & delays like the Mountain? Or do you mean to color & change the Lenormand meanings one way or the other by the tarot card you add?

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You doubt it can be done? REALLY? Why make failure your objective? Everything we now take for granted was probably dismissed as impossible at some point in history - the wheel probably had a bunch of Neanderthals chuckling up their sleeves that hadn't been invented yet ... why would anyone need a wheel when they had two feet?

So - in the Tarot you don't see friends, loyalty, money (a whole suit about that!), stability, or hopes? There are no Tarot cards about obstacles or delays? At ALL?

No, I said I didn't think a one-to-one match could be found. Of course there are similar themes covered throughout the decks, but not in an equivalent way to my mind, that's all. In most cases you'd have to choose one facet of the Lenormand meaning to focus on with your Tarot choice. Not trying to set you up for failure, just asking what you're trying to do!

I certainly don't want to rain on your parade, Tarotbear

I'm just trying to understand. Are you thinking of it being more Lenormand with 36 cards and then just adding a card you see as a good corresponding tarot card in a corner? I read your posts, I'm just trying to figure out how that would work. I see Tower in Lenormand, I just don't think the same as Tower in tarot. Those two cards may look the same, but I don't see them the same. Are you thinking the Child/the Fool? I'm just trying to understand if this is kind of your vision.

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tarotbear said:

Guess I won't be selling you or greatdane any copies of my hybrid deck if I can pull one off!

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You never know, tarotbear. I'll just have to wait and see what you come up with!

LRichard said:

Oh good grief! How do existing Lenormand decks fit 52 playing card insets into 36 cards? Answer: It doesn't take an Einstein to see that this is impossible, since there would then need to be an average of 1.4444444.... playing cards on each Lenormand card. There is no need to insult tarotbear's intelligence.

What do playing card insets add to Lenormand, since very few people use them or even seem to know why they are there?

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Oh LRichard, I should have known my post would inadvertently provoke you, heh. Sorry!

History seems to show, I believe, that the playing card inserts weren't shoved onto the Lenormand deck. It's kind of the other way around. In other parts of the world, people play card games and tell fortunes with reduced sets of playing cards (using 32 or 36 cards, for example --they even sell such packs commercially!). Many of the meanings we have for the Lenormand are related to playing card meanings in countries that used the German suits, and Lenormand may have originally been a method of fortunetelling with one of those packs of cards. The symbols we recognize today are the "later addition."

But ANYWAY, the point of my post to tarotbear of course wasn't to pick on him or anything or be snide about his plans. It was to ask questions as they occur to me. I'd think the same things if someone said they were going to add playing cards to tarot, or Kipper cards to tarot, or Soul Cards to tarot, or add tarot to Froud's Faerie Oracle!

You can very easily add playing cards to Tarot - the same way you'd add astrological symbols, Hebrew letters, or the daily stock prices to Tarot. The possibilities are ENDLESS!