Mastering/overcoming complicated decks/systems or giving up???

Was thinking about this this morning.

Have you had a deck which had a system that was far too complicated for you to overcome, however much you tried?

I ask this because I have a few decks in my collection that have put me off because of the system they follow. But it doesn't stop me from wanting to break and read with them.

Many know that I have tried to persist again and again with the New Orleans Voodoo Tarot. In this, I feel I have had success in overcoming what I was informed would be a complicated system, to some extent. I was told it was an oracle. That it was not tarot. Some of these comments were from people that had never actually approached the pack in person.

When I first bought the pack [aside from other personal reservations], I was a bit concerned that I would never be able to read with it. All of the cards looked so complicated, with funny titles. And I wondered if I would ever get to know them all and what they stood for. But thinking about it now, doesn't even your most traditional and well-known pack look like that to a fresh set of eyes to tarot? I cannot remember what I thought when I first opened my Shirley Barker deck. I know that I was excited and I remember I needed to use the book to start with, so I asume that it wasn't that different. So why should it be with the New Orleans or any other system which jars heavily with that which we already know [or don't].

I broke out the deck and tried to read with it. At first, I couldn't. I was blocked. There was nothing there I could relate to. I had no knowledge of Voodoo, the suit references or the characters. It was like some sort of impossible puzzle - like tapping your head and rubbing your tummy at the same time. So the deck got boxed away.

On my next approach, I sat with the book. But that didn't give me definitions I wanted [it can pussy-foot all around the edges without giving a concrete meaning]. So I researched elsewhere. I opened threads here. Once again, the deck was shelved.

Recently [a good few months ago], I pulled it out again. I love this deck and it really got to me that I couldn't read with it. I started going through it slowly. First, the 'ones'. Then the 'twos'. I wrote my impressions. I wrote the book impressions. I researched the spirits. And I was so lucky to meet Grip Delabonte on here, as our conversations have boosted each other's confidence.
And this time, layers have been revealed. Barriers have fallen. The deck is slowly [but surely] opening up. Of course, we are not there yet. I still would have trouble reading with all 78 cards. But we know a good deal about 24 of them, so far. And they make sense. I feel as though that block has been removed as we get further into the deck.

So, it is possible. It is readible.

"It's tarot, Jim, but not as we know it"

Which leads me to the other deck which I pull out over and over and over. And I put back over and over and over again - the 'Navigators of the Mystic SEA'.

Looking at this one also hurts my brain. The system is a tough one in that it is teases you by being closer to tradition but then so obscure in places that it throws you off even more. I have tried many times to sit and read the book, but I end up getting frustrated and thinking 'why, why, why' and wondering what the point of trying to read with it is. Once again, I am disheartened by reviews from people that say 'It is not readible, but the pictures look nice'.

Is it unreadible? Can it be cracked. Previously, I might have said 'no'. But after finding the door to New Orleans, I now wonder if anything is impossible with a little effort and a chance.

I love the Navigator images. I really love them. They are my favourite out of so many decks - the colours, the figures, the light, the darkness. They are almost eerie in places and remind me of creatures that come out after dark. It is another world - something I get from the New Orleans as well. And I don't want it to be just another deck that sits in it's bag.

I have gotten over trying to find the one deck. It is a pointless search. And I am now happy with rotating the ones I have. The New Orleans is always going to aid heavy and deep questioning. My Renaissance is my 'bang, bang' deck for short, sharp, but needed councelling. And I have a few others for tweeking in style and mood. And I want the Navigators to be part of that collection.

So, does anyone have anything to add?

Did you persist, persist, persist? Why? And was it worth it?

Do you give up when you hit an obstacle or unknown tradition? Is it really not worth the bother?

Is there a deck that you thought you would never get to grips with, but have?

Is there a deck you want to work with now, but think you'll never be able to crack?

LB

Edited to Add:
Just having the two decks together at the same time, I have just realised that the Navigators and the Voodoo are EXACTLY the same size.

Yes I have decks that seem overly complicated in a way I don't understand. I have two brains when it comes to Tarot. I seem to be able to keep the Reading and the studying apart in many ways. The study adds to the reading side- but generally I keep them separate.
Navigators of the Mystic Sea is a great example. I could not see the order change in any way that made sense to me. So after considerable reading of books, I decided to ignore all titles and numbers of both Major and minors and use it by the images alone. I used the symbols only. I have mentally trimmed it if you will. I think the artist was fantastic, but I don't agree with the reasoning- so I discarded it. I could not get past the man with Crowley- so the Thoth I approached through Sacred Geometry, and now reading with the Thoth is great.
I am a person who likes to study, but more than that, I like to see how the Artist wanted to make me see a certain way. If I find that I cannot agree, and I like the cards- I work it out another way. Once the deck is out there for me to buy- it is never set in concrete how I am going to use the images. I guess the hardest decks for me to read with are those with the mixed images like the Haindl- some Eastern, some Western etc. but with perseverance and a final understanding of the Artist's vision (Haindl- greenie conservationist) I have got it to work for me. I found the Alchemical, once I had learned all about Alchemy, could never be read like it was a RWS or a Thoth- so I am careful who I read for with it.
I have two decks at the moment, that are a challenge. One is called the Kabala Tarot by a Russian unknown- I will use it for study until I have some understanding of all the symbols (and there are many) and the other is a book of 78 Herbs- 22/16/40 groupings- I have to assign order to. It has been fascinating.
Continue with your Voodoo LB- nothing is lost when it comes to Tarot. ~Rosanne

Little Baron: If there is a personal attraction or liking for a deck, no reason to not keep trying, but perhaps better over time & in specific or the studied increments than in knocking the self for the connection to defy the efforts thus far.

Navigators of the Mystic SEA was & still is, a deck whose imagery calls loudly & persistently yet too much of it remains a mystery. Not unusual since the images unusual & 'off the beaten track' altogether & further adds to its mysteriousness. Resisted reading through the book; & just whence I thought I may have to dip into it just for the inspirational, suddenly one card (do not recall which at the moment) made perfect sense.

I surmise, then, the issue not really about the cards & thieir level of eloquence, but that of perhaps being too accustomed to the more familiar imagery & trying to relate oranges to apples.

MeeWah said:

trying to relate oranges to apples.

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Thats the one. It is difficult not to, sometimes. In some decks, it is harder when the differences are subtle because you think you can relate it to what you know, but the spin sends you into deeper confusion.

In the Voodoo, some cards move far away from many known templates, so it is sometimes easier to just work with them as the 'oranges' they are.

I am really proud of my work with the Voodoo. After so long of banging my head against the wall, I can see the results of my effort. And I am glad that I have not passed it aside out of either apathy or frustration. It is almost like making a breakthrough in a foreign language. It is like looking at a symbol in a card and thinking 'I know that word!'.

Roseanne said:

If I find that I cannot agree, and I like the cards- I work it out another way

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I like this. And I think it is finding the confidence to do so which I need to get better at. With the Voodoo, it has been more about understanding the religion. But with the Mystic SEA, I think I might need to develop my own understanding, which might be fun too. Exploring a landcape is just that. And sometimes, it is nice to try and find your own way about, don't you think.

I will try the book again, but I think I will have a go at a little self exploration with the SEA.

LB

I keep a notebook (journal) just for this sort of thing.

When I finally got the Spiral (had my eye on it for 2 years) it was hard for me because it has unfamiliar symbols on the cards. I am chipping away at the meanings, writing them down. Like the Legend Arthurian (it has stories), it might become a summer time deck where I can lay outside, and learn the symbols.

Like the "One deck Wonder" thread. This is like that.

For me it is the William Blake Tarot. To be able to do good readings with this deck I would have to read the companion book over a few times and probably still refer to it. Oh I know, I know I don't HAVE to do that, I could just use my intuition, but I think there is so much to this deck (and William Blake) that studying would enhance and take the reader to another level.

So I have had this set for four years (I think) and still haven't given it the attention it deserves, too many distractions , but I haven't given up the idea that I will do this someday!

Ruby7

For me, the New Orleans Voodoo tarot wasn't one I couldn't have learned and worked with, it was a matter of just knowing I didn't want to continue on with it for other reasons not easy to put a finger on. I might try it again sometime, but not now, and it did get me the Drogi, so it was a good decision.

If I were to be in a situation where I didn't have any other deck than a tough one, then I'd work at it and be determined to make it useful but I do have many other decks and I choose to have working decks, so I just don't find it something I want to knock my head against.

Maybe someday I'll decide it would be fun to take a challenging deck and stay with it just for the sake of meeting the challenge, but for now, I've got lots and lots of other stuff keeping my interest and I'm not at that point. Doing that would be like taking a round 2,000 piece jigsaw puzzle picturing a bowl of popcorn and working at it just to say I did it. I'd have to be in that frame of mind. There are lots of people for whom it's their nature to love challenges, and Little Baron, you seem to be one of those. I admire your determination in working with the NOVT. I've been watching you and rooting for you. You're like a mountain climber, compelled to go for that next higher summit.

Aww, thanks Solitaire.

And we did give the New Orleans a good bash, didn't we?

I think it takes a good few goes. Each time, you realise what sunk in the time before, even if you may have not realised it. Or at least, that was how it was for me. I absorbed so much the first time around that I think I needed a few months to just absorb it. So, by the next time I picked the deck up for somne serious study, I had digested a lot of the stuff I had learnt properly.

This time, I have more of a foundation, due to a lot of what we did in study, Solitaire. And it has helped me with my confidence.

But I also use other decks for readings. As I said, I am not so hung up on finding the 'one' anymore. Today, I have the Golden with me. I do not think I could just knock out a great reading with the NOVT or the Mystic SEA right now, so I need a deck with a language I do understand for general reads - as I often want to throw a few cards out for either me, or someone else. And I wouldn't be happy to read for someone else with a deck that I don't know well enough yet.

LB

For myself, there is another question that may be relevant in addition to the opening ones (or the title of the thread).

Is the 'system' being promulgated deemed (for myself) worth the effort - do I actually want to slowly modify my thinking and orientation towards that which stands behind the deck? (hence, for the second time today, calling to mind that thread I once started: The instrument is its own teacher)

I must admit (as mentioned by Ruby7) that something like the William Blake deck(s) are worth the effort... but then, I am fortunate to share an office with a friend who is able to explain the subtleties of Blakean thought.

There are other decks, on the other hand, I would personally prefer to not spend the time attempting to internally 'acquire'.

I feel the Thoth will remain stubbornly unusable for me (at this point anyhow). The more I study it, the less sense it makes. It makes my eyes go cross.

I admire your willingness to stick with the NOVT. It gives me hope.