A Walk in the Wood...cuts, the Marseilles

Nicky:

He looks a little like the Mouthpiece of Sauron to me. I'd try to stay out of his orbit. . .

CED

conversus said:

Nicky:

He looks a little like the Mouthpiece of Sauron to me. I'd try to stay out of his orbit. . .

CED

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He DOES!!!!!! That will keep me giggling all evening!

Hugs,
MGxxx

LeChariot

Well our man has run off without those scary women at least in this card... and I love this card! I am using the Noblet, so one's mileage may vary but this card is full of color and imagery and I just love how pleased our man looks.

We have quite the canopy over his head...it takes up the entire card, which is not what I am generally used to seeing here. He holds up a staff, wears a crown, and looks very nicely attired. If he had been in a battle, he sure cleaned up quite nicely for the parade. The horses are looking, as is our Charioteer, in the same direction ( off to my left ) which is the past (in my way of reading). Perhaps looking over the scene over which he has just triumphed.

The horses look ready to move in opposite directions, but both are looking the same way...perhaps they will work together when they start to move.. they have each a leg up but are at the moment stationary.

They are also standing on top of some plants, which so far have survived their hooves.

If I was doing divination, this card would strike me as having to have all your ducks lined up, no matter how convinced you are that you are in control (the opposing directions), that said, it does appear to be a calm before the storm moment (or after... perhaps he is trying to get away from that shrewish woman in the last card!).

Could he be a hero coming back from war? Also he's not holding onto reigns so he is in somehow in control of the cart without having to actually drive it. When looking at Le Pape-La Movrevx-Le Chariot together they both seem to be looking in upon the scene in the middle.

conversus said:

The blind Cupid can remind us that sometimes it is not so much ourselves that choose Love ; but it is Love that chooses us—taking us beyond ourselves for weal or woe.

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Also that the true source and object of love, the Divine, is invisible to us.

But we may be lead from the revealed beauty of the earthly venus (crowned with flowers) to the hidden beauty of heavenly venus (crown of flames/laurel leaves); from love for the beauty of creation, to love for the creator.

prudence said:

I think I have read that the Papesse is a metaphorical symbol for "The Church" itself...

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The papesse looks not into the open book in her lap, but upon the juggler: as the Catholic church looks upon transubstantion, purgatory, veneration of saints and relics, miracles and other such juggleries rather than upon scripture.

One could say that enamoured of the glamour, she has become distracted from the substance.

The 15th century Steele sermon adds in parantheses to the title of this card

'O wretches, that which the christian faith denies."

As such, we can read in her an elevation of something denied by tradition or belief: of going against convention, the breaking of a taboo (which may, as with our 15th century preacher, bring admonition from some quarters).

kwaw said:

The papesse looks not into the open book in her lap, but upon the juggler: as the Catholic church looks upon transubstantion, purgatory, veneration of saints and relics, miracles and other such juggleries rather than upon scripture.

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Ooooooo I like that

kwaw said:

The papesse looks not into the open book in her lap, but upon the juggler: as the Catholic church looks upon transubstantion, purgatory, veneration of saints and relics, miracles and other such juggleries rather than upon scripture.

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In the 15th Century, just as today, the Eastern and Western Church would have looked upon transubstantiation, purgatory, the veneration of saints and the relics of the saints, the expectation of miracles not as some distraction from the Scriptures, but as rooted deeply in the Scripture that the Popesse holds in her lap, as on a throne. Each of these a direct consequence of her deep engagement with the Scripture. These are treasures she has to offer the Juggler and his audience, substance not snake-oil, which perhaps is why she trumps him.

CED

Anyone know why the Papess and Pope are split in the order?


Why would 'worldly' powers, such as in the Emperor and Empress, trump the Papess?

conversus said:

In the 15th Century, just as today, the Eastern and Western Church would have looked upon transubstantiation, purgatory, the veneration of saints and the relics of the saints, the expectation of miracles not as some distraction from the Scriptures, but as rooted deeply in the Scripture that the Popesse holds in her lap, as on a throne.
CED

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...the magic of the church trumps that of the juggler, like the miracles of a Moses trumps the trickeries of the pharoe's magicians; as St. Peter trumps the juggleries of a Simon Magus...

...but reformists within the church critical of such, from at least the 12th century on (and just as many today), would have interpreted it in a different light: as the church preying upon the gullible and superstitious as the juggler prays upon them: perhaps the papesse trumps him because she casts her net wider and does a much better job of it

And the TdM pattern as extent is post-reformation, when such criticisms had gone past the critical point to a split in the church, a hundred years or more of religious wars, massacres and religious migrations....

...and it is worth reiterating the reformist polemic existed within the catholic church way before then, from at least the 12th century, and can be found on popular poets such as Chaucer, Boccaccio, Petrarch, Dante, etc...

...the glory of the symbolism is it can be read in many ways; as readers we read it within the confines of the question, enquirer and their situation ( and our own particular prejudices).