Gender neutral Lenormand deck?

I have several friends and family members who identify as gender queer. I'm trying to figure out how to design a deck -- possibly through the inclusion of extra cards -- to accommodate relationship readings and GTs for them.

This is not simply a matter of using 2 Man or 2 Woman cards, as I do for relationship readings for same sex couples. Instead, this is about reading for and/or about someone who does not identify as either male or female.

Thoughts?

I think it's a wonderful idea!! There should be more of this! Are you thinking of portrait-style representations, or basic symbols? I guess it comes down to how artistically confident you feel.

I also subscribe as gender queer There is definitely a space on the Lenormand market for lgbt decks and decks which shake up traditional gender, although some decks have multiple male and female and people cards to cover everyone I know what you mean about this isn't about relationship reading though.

first suggestion, what about designing a lenormand with no people? this is tricky unlike the wild unknown tarot and other decks where conventional symbols and people are removed. How can you have a gentleman and lady card for the lenormand system? Wild Unknown has animals for the court card people, but maybe some art can represent masculine or feminine energy? male or female symbol?

second suggestion, what about gender neutral people or a man and female card included and two people that you cannot work out their gender. a soft feminine face but maybe in a suit.

third suggestion, one gender neutral card representing the person having the reading and another card representing a person they are interested in / significant other. That does away with the man / lady but keeps the positions.

just some ideas tricky though!

ETA: thinking about this some more, gender queer is a spectrum and people can non conform to gender or be androgynous or dress as a different gender to their birth sex or challenge gender assumptions. This is tricky to represent. I think making a variety of different "people" cards could solve this, not just man and woman, but different characters.

It IS tricky, isn't it?

These are great ideas. And I'm really glad I'm not the only one thinking about this!

I'm leery of completely doing away with gender, because that seems just as un-inclusive as the current deck. I want a deck that will work for whoever I'm reading for, regardless of their gender identity. Relationships are complicated. Sometimes you have a situation that includes people who identify as male or female AND people who don't. So I want to have all options available.

But there needs to be a way to represent people of any or no gender, not just women and men.

I kinda like the idea of a variety of people cards where the gender is indeterminate. That would allow the reader and/or client to choose the cards that best fit the situation.

I also feel like there needs to be room for multiple parties in relationship readings and GTs. There are plenty of non-traditional relationships that involve more than 2 partners. A deck with a variety of people cards of indeterminate gender could address that issue, as well.

However, that raises the question of the card numbers and playing card insets.

Personally, I'd be ok with a deck like this that doesn't have numbers and insets. But they're important to some readers.

Plus, at what point does this deck cease to be an actual Lenormand deck. And do we care?

thorhammer said:

I think it's a wonderful idea!! There should be more of this! Are you thinking of portrait-style representations, or basic symbols? I guess it comes down to how artistically confident you feel.

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Well, unfortunately, I'm not an artist. I'm designing a deck, and these are issues I want to deal with in my design. So, I'm not artistically confident at all. ;-)

I'm hoping a friend of mine who draws will be able to work with me on this project. I'm thinking of fairly simple, possibly stylized, like drawings. Very uncluttered. I think that can work for the people cards, as well as the object cards.

You mean like replacing the man and woman entirely? How about a couple from like Governor, Dancer, Valet, Page, Beloved, Sweetheart, Officer, etc - ways to represent different types people without having to be gender dependent.

Yelell said:

You mean like replacing the man and woman entirely?

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I'm thinking of gender neutral cards *in addition to* gendered cards, so the deck can accommodate any relationship.

Yelell said:

How about a couple from like Governor, Dancer, Valet, Page, Beloved, Sweetheart, Officer, etc - ways to represent different types people without having to be gender dependent.

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Do you mean a set of people cards based on professions or roles?

Any of the face cards (playing card inserts) can represent people. In addition to these, there are cards such as Bear, Tower, Dog, and Rider that can represent people, without a predetermined gender role attached to them.

firecatpickles said:

Any of the face cards (playing card inserts) can represent people.

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True. But the face cards are gendered, which is what I'm trying to avoid.

firecatpickles said:

In addition to these, there are cards such as Bear, Tower, Dog, and Rider that can represent people, without a predetermined gender role attached to them.

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Also true. But some of those are also often gendered (Rider is usually a young man, Bear is usually a maternal figure, etc.). And I don't like the idea of using animal cards to represent the primary people in a reading. It feels a bit dehumanizing. Unless we substitute animals for all the people.

Plus, those cards do have other meanings. I'm looking for a way to do what the Man and Woman cards do in a reading, but gender neutral.

I hope I'm articulating that in a way that makes sense...

Aster Breo said:

I'm thinking of gender neutral cards *in addition to* gendered cards, so the deck can accommodate any relationship.



Do you mean a set of people cards based on professions or roles?

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I don't know. I was remembering art my dad had of silhouettes of jazz dancers - so much energy and movement but most were not obviously male or female. It made me think of all the different characteristics people have, leader, nurturer, soldier, thinker, lover, that aren't gender specific.