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Pips have me confused, disheartened and wanting to give up.

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kevin.mason1  kevin.mason1 is offline
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Pips have me confused, disheartened and wanting to give up.


I'm struggling with the Pip cards in the Marseille Tarot.
Different authors use different numerology, elemental attribution etc. and meanings.

I even have seen the 2C described as meaning a divorce.

It's confusing me. And I'm getting disheartened by the Marseille tarot.

The thing with me is I can see the reasoning of each author as valid.

Pents=earth yeah that's obvious
Pents = air yeah that's obvious

Wands= either air or fire or earth? Yeah as each author describes their reasoning I see its correct. [emoji37]

2 of Cup as divorce. Yeah I see that. My 2 cups are separated, cut off from each other by those flowers.

I've seen Jason's card reading videos and think "oh that's it" that's the key to the pips.

I read Jodo's book. "oh that's it" that's the key to the pips."

Yoav's book. "oh that's it" that's the key to the pips."

Camoin's site. "oh that's it" that's the key to the pips."

Camelia Elias' book. "oh that's it" that's the key to the pips."

Marcus Katz Tarosophy. "oh that's it" that's the key to the pips."

And on and on.

Someone might say pick one and stick to it. But which one, if they all seem valid and are described by 'experts' in the field?

I'm just so confused by the whole pip thing. Help!!!
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jean bosco  jean bosco is offline
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Hey, welcome to the club. ;-)

My opinion... Since the Marseille Tarot wasn't created for divination in the first place we can't refer to an 'original system', hence the diversity of methods. Best is to choose a system which sounds best for you personaly and stick with it. You could also try one after the other and then decide what works best for you.

I like Camelia Elias' simple and sober approach because it seems to fit the deck, but that's me...
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dancing_moon  dancing_moon is offline
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Welcome to AT, Kevin!

I've been struggling with pips for many years myself, and what really helped me was actually doing readings, for myself first, and then for others. You can also post your readings in a new thread in the Marseilles Forum, give your interpretations, and others will chime in with their ideas about your cards.

This experience might, perhaps, show you what I've noticed: it doesn't have to be either...or (either Jodo, or Camelia, or Enrique, or...), they can all be valid at different times (and sometimes simultaneously!), and they can all add to your personal pool of meanings for each card.

Also, have a look through TdM exchanges (they're all linked in the TdM Circle sign-up threads in the Marseilles Forum) and see how others answer specific questions with TdM cards, and how they handle the pips. And then go ahead and practice, and feel free to ask any questions you might have. Myself and other TdM fans will be happy to help you, as we're all learning.
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kevin.mason1  kevin.mason1 is offline
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Thanks Jean and Dancing_moon.

For some reason I can't see anything in the TdMCircle threads.
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kevin.mason1  kevin.mason1 is offline
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It might be to do with Tapatalk. I can't post pics of what's happening either.
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Try some of the illustrated (pip card) decks.

Also: Cups = Water; Wands = Fire; Swords = Air; Pentacles = Earth.

I sometimes read normal playing cards (poker cards) too. The basics is having a good knowledge of numerology.

Lastly as for books, don't take each writer's word as gospel. We are not dealing with an exact science, rather with a form of free expressive art. What some see and do, may not work for others. For example I prefer using the RWS decks, but I prefer the meanings given by Crowley.

So yes, find a system that works for you, something you understand and can align with.
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kevin.mason1  kevin.mason1 is offline
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Pips have me confused, disheartened and wanting to give up.


Thanks Ruud. I can read illustrated decks like RWS etc. but I want to get away from that and not superimpose those on the TdM deck.

If I did I might as well move back to those kinds of decks.

Are there illustrated TdM pips decks other than what you see normally?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin.mason1 View Post

Are there illustrated TdM pips decks other than what you see normally?
None that I know of in the TdM series. I meant try a different kind of deck that has illustrated pip cards.
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dancing_moon  dancing_moon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin.mason1 View Post
Thanks Jean and Dancing_moon.

For some reason I can't see anything in the TdMCircle threads.
Oh yes, I'm sorry. You'll be able to see them once you've been on the Forum for a week and have posted 25 posts. And you can't post attachments unless you're a subscribed member, but you can post them using the [ img ] code or the corresponding button in your message editor. However, this means that the images must be somewhere on the web, not on your computer/phone.

Personally, I can't think of any illustrated-pip TdM decks either, unless it's something like the Vacchetta/Tarot of the Master. However, for me, the very lack of illustrations makes those TdM pips much more versatile and flexible than illustrated ones, which are locked in a specific situation shown in the image. It might take quite a while to get the hang of the pips, but it's highly rewarding afterwards and it keeps getting better over time.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin.mason1 View Post
I'm struggling with the Pip cards in the Marseille Tarot.
Different authors use different numerology, elemental attribution etc. and meanings. .....I'm just so confused by the whole pip thing. Help!!!
Yes. It's a fact that each author has their own unique way of reading the Pips. Fie on them! Some people think that you should choose some standard author and use their method to the exclusion of others. Others think that you should pick and choose whatever appeals to you from each of the various authors, but of course this throws consistency and coherence to the wind. There are several ways out of the problem. One radical solution is to use Trumps only. Apparently this is favored by many Continental readers. In fact, I use this a lot for quickie readings. Another is to make up your own system. I often use Pips as Trumps, which has been popularized by Lee Bursten, and I make up my own meanings based on the resulting correspondences.

When it comes to Pips, everybody is full of it (perhaps including me). It seems that Marseille type decks have attracted everyone who is put off by Tarot developments since the fin de siecle 1899-1900. I.e., they have Luddite tendencies, and I find this disgusting. If I embrace the advances in medical science in the 20th century, why should I toss the more modern developments in the understanding of Tarot? In fact, I embrace what has happened to Tarot. For some reason, this is considered heresy by the purists, but what do they know? In fact, they know very little, so as far as I'm concerned, the sky's the limit.

I am sure that nothing of what I have written will undo your confusion, but having gone through the same experience, I felt that I should share some of my own feelings about it, regardless of whether the purist Luddites will find it nauseating. [End of rant.]
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