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Mr Timothy Gray  Mr Timothy Gray is offline
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I am constantly surprised - tho' mayhaps I shouldn't be - that people are oft confused by the pips. I wonder if society has forced us into a 'read instruction manual first' way of thought, which has stunted our collective imagination?

Pictures are pictures. Art is art. Music is music. Words are words. Color is color.

These things only have meaning when we agree that they have meaning.

So, why should we prescribe any arbitrary meaning to abstract pictures, when they suddenly glow bright when put next to other pictures?

It's time to forget about meaning & be surprised by new flights of connection when reading the pips.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Timothy Gray View Post
I am constantly surprised - tho' mayhaps I shouldn't be - that people are oft confused by the pips. I wonder if society has forced us into a 'read instruction manual first' way of thought, which has stunted our collective imagination?
I've always had a problem with pip cards - I look but don't see. I read playing cards, I should be able to read TdM's or Soprafino decks -which is what I want to do.

A few days ago I got a couple of my decks out - the Burdel and Fournier and took another look at them and realised my problem - I have no interpretations of how to use these cards, apart from the LWB's. I have the book by Lee Bursten for the Burdel and was surprised when he didn't give infull explanations for the Minors - the cards I need help with the most - but what I wanted was to be spoonfed and walked through the Minors.

I realise now that this isn't what the TdM's are about. I have a good knowledge of numerology and colour associations and am using these to help with these cards, plus Lee's book. My readings with these decks are very blunt and to the point, but are proving fascinating and for the first time ever, when I see the pip card i don't automatically think of the Rider Waite version, which is what I was doing. This is a whole new learning curve for me and I'm enjoying the ride.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Timothy Gray View Post
.....So, why should we prescribe any arbitrary meaning to abstract pictures, when they suddenly glow bright when put next to other pictures?.....
Could you please give us an example?
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Mr Timothy Gray  Mr Timothy Gray is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LRichard View Post
Could you please give us an example?
An example would defeat the purpose. It would only illuminate what I see - not what you see.
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OK - then can you please explain rather better - because what you say makes no sense at all to me.

But to say "an example defeats the purpose" is rather - trollish, IMHO. Comes over as "I know and it's for you to find out" - which never helps anyone.
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Mr Timothy Gray  Mr Timothy Gray is offline
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Originally Posted by gregory View Post
OK - then can you please explain rather better - because what you say makes no sense at all to me.

But to say "an example defeats the purpose" is rather - trollish, IMHO. Comes over as "I know and it's for you to find out" - which never helps anyone.
I'm sorry, but that's entirely your projection onto my comment & not at all what I intended.

I don't know anything more or less than anyone else. I've never claimed superiority & never will. In addition, I can only explain in the way that I know how. I speak from my own experience & wouldn't dare speak from a universal experience. That's foolish.

Either way, setting one image against another creates a greater image. When using the Pips, I look for the greater image - not each card as separate. It seems students of the Marseille Tarot are constantly looking for individual meanings to the individual Pips, but those meanings do not exist. The cards were not created in the same way as the Rider-Waite-Smith deck, for instance. Because of this, we are afforded a greater freedom when reading & using the Marseille Pips. There are no rules. There is only flow.

Ultimately, you won't find the answer in any book or from any reader. It can only come from you.
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gregory  gregory is offline
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I said "comes over", not that that was your intent. If you could describe what you mean in more detail... which you have, now, a bit - thanks.

But Enrique Enriquez does rather what you suggest, actually, then. As do I, especially when using TdM, as I don't use "generic" meanings anyway, so how one card looks at the next, like, is exactly the way I approach them. The words "glowing bright" confused me rather. Bigger picture makes sense.
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The Happy Squirrel  The Happy Squirrel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Timothy Gray View Post
I'm sorry, but that's entirely your projection onto my comment & not at all what I intended.



I don't know anything more or less than anyone else. I've never claimed superiority & never will. In addition, I can only explain in the way that I know how. I speak from my own experience & wouldn't dare speak from a universal experience. That's foolish.



Either way, setting one image against another creates a greater image. When using the Pips, I look for the greater image - not each card as separate. It seems students of the Marseille Tarot are constantly looking for individual meanings to the individual Pips, but those meanings do not exist. The cards were not created in the same way as the Rider-Waite-Smith deck, for instance. Because of this, we are afforded a greater freedom when reading & using the Marseille Pips. There are no rules. There is only flow.



Ultimately, you won't find the answer in any book or from any reader. It can only come from you.

So that's like reading tea leaves? Or throwing bones on the floor and read those....?
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The Happy Squirrel  The Happy Squirrel is offline
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Originally Posted by Mr Timothy Gray View Post
An example would defeat the purpose. It would only illuminate what I see - not what you see.

So it is like reading ink blots? Rorschach?
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Mr Timothy Gray  Mr Timothy Gray is offline
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Yes, those are all excellent comparisons!

The beauty of reading the Marseille Tarot is 'letting go' of per-conceived ideas, meanings & methodology. Reading the TdM is liberated from all the prefunctory notions of most modern Tarot decks. The Pips invite us to open our minds, our hearts & imagination to readings that no book or manual can dictate.

The Marseille Tarot invites the reader to create a system of reading that is entirely their own. It is unique in that. It does not carry the baggage of scholars or experts. It invites the reader to play.
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